Wine Marketing Secrets with Dr. Tim Dodd (Video)

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Lori Sweet · 43:06 Great discussion.

Full Transcript:

Natalie: 00:01 All right folks, well tonight is a super interesting topic because
we’re going to look at, the ways that liquor stores have little
triggers in store to prompt us to buy wine and restaurants do
the same thing., we’re gonna look at wine, consumer behavior,
wine marketing campaigns, what’s worked in the past, what
hasn’t, because our expert here tonight on the Sunday supper
club really knows how has dug into that, has done the research
and has some fascinating results to share with us.

Natalie: 02:13 All right, so let me introduce our guest more fully he is the
James Young regions professor of hospitality management and
the director of Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute at
Texas Tech University. He worked with New Zealand, a
grape and wine industry before becoming involved in the Texas
industry in the late 1980’s and has served as president and
other roles within that association. He completed his doctoral
dissertation on winery tourism and continues to conduct
research on marketing and economic issues related to wine. He
has also published numerous articles and on these topics in a
variety of professional journals and has presented at various
international conferences. And I would like to welcome him
now to the Sunday supper club. Welcome, Dr. Tim Dodd. Hello.
Hi Natalie. Thanks for having me on your show. Oh, absolutely.
Are a pleasure. And you’re in Lubbock, Texas, correct?

Tim: 03:18 Yes. And for those of you who don’t know, Lubbock, Texas is ,
it’s on the high plains of Texas and the panhandle. panhandle
area and as being the center part of a lot of the grape growing
industry down here for a. So really the last 30 years or so,

Natalie: 03:35 a fantastic. Is that because it’s at high altitude or high altitude
planting surround you?

Tim: 03:41 Yes, exactly. We, we’re here at about 3000 feet., so we’re on a,
on a plane, it’s very flat, but we get the hot days and long hot
summer days, but then cool evenings, calls down to the sixties
and seventies in the seventies, in the evening, and even cooler
actually in some parts during the summer so that, that allows us
to be able to grow a grow. Good quality grapes up to you.

Natalie: 04:08 How fabulous I do want to know more about Texas wine? Even
though we can’t really get it here in Ontario, we have
viewers from across the states and Canada, the world actually.
And speaking of them, I am going to check over on the
comments because we’ve got lots of folks coming in the virtual
door already.

Natalie: 06:07 You have an interesting story too about how you first came to
wine. So why don’t you share that with us to start off with?

Tim: 06:14 Sure. I think everyone has iconic wine moments in their lives
that they really remember. , some of them may have been
something that really got you interested in wine. mine was
actually as a 22-year-old, I was working three jobs, all of them
involving alcohol in some form, a buyer work after I graduated
from university and we were mostly selling beer at the
liquor store that I was at. But one night, my boss pulled out an
old bottle of Shiraz, an Australian Shiraz that they had a and
opened that and I was just blown away. It was, it was really just
so much more interesting than any of the wines that ever had
really. I just had sweet wines and sparkling cold back and things
like that. That is a, as a young person growing up. And so when I
tried that, that really stuck in my mind and I thought, wow, this
is an industry, this is in the area that is, that is a little different.
It has a lot more complexity than I ever knew. And so , I
started learning from there on out and had various roles that,
that kept building on that.

Natalie: 07:26 Yeah, that’s true. It’s, it always seems to be one pivotal wine or
experience that turns us onto wine. And I would love to know
for people who are watching if your pivotal wine was that.
That’s a great story. Tim. I would love to know because I’ve
looked at, you’ve done lots of published lots of research papers
along with Natalia and probably perhaps others that we’re
reviewing now. I’m so much research, so many interesting
insights. What would surprise us about the way we buy wine?
What sort of behaviors do we exhibit in liquor stores especially
that we may not even be aware of?

Tim: 08:03 Yes. I, think it’s or the main thing with wine is just so
different or depending on situations on the consumer and for
those of you who have been both a consumer and also involved
in the professional, but you, the very good people are those
that really prompt figuring out the match and when you can
match up the level of expertise of that consumer with the types
of wine that you think they like, then you really can hone in a
directly there. And I think that’s what really good wine stores
do. They, that they do that through three training of the staff
and certainly in restaurants. That’s a major part of good
salesmanship as well.

Natalie: 08:55 And so,

Tim: 08:56 let me see if I can misinterpret your insights on purpose. Does
that means those with expertise, high expertise should be
drinking complex wines and the rest baby duck just saying that
to be provocative, right? No, no, no. I mean, I think that the
retail outlet or the store would, whoever is selling the wine
needs to figure out, we’ll make sure they know who their
consumer is very quick and, and, and so to that person’s needs
and wants.

Natalie: 09:31 And how do they figure out quickly, are there a few key
questions? Are they looking at how they’re dressed or what are
the questions they might ask to discover like where this person
is at, what they might like?

Tim: 09:42 Yeah, I’m definitely, you know, some of that is in the pricing, ,
something that is region and you can just get a sense of
someone’s knowledge and background as you, as you start
going through a little conversation. And, and, and I think if
people engage in that conversation, they can get a lot quicker to
where, where they need to be.

Natalie: 10:03 And so what would you, if you were on the floor, what would be
your first two questions that you’d ask a perspective, wine
buyer,

Tim: 10:10 price range that they’re looking at. And also what’s the
occasion, occasion for wine is, is a huge part of a consumer’s
interest for that. If it’s just a casual, I’m a casual time, then
you’re going to be looking at a completely different wine and
something that you might be serving to your boss, , for instance,
at a very important dinner that you might be having. So, so that,
that, that should signal sort of one or two paths that you might
go on.

Natalie: 10:45 Yeah. And how would you gauge their level of interest, which
you sort of say, can you pronounce converts demeanor or
would you give them a little test of regions and things like that?
What might you ask to gauge interest? Like, because there are
people who work in wine stores watching this. So will it be a
sort of subtle question you could ask or the sommelier in a
restaurant, for instance, to gauge someone’s level of expertise?

Tim: 11: 10, I think you start with a, with things like do you prefer red
wine? Red wine or white wine is sort of a good, a good fist, a
coverage thing. And then you start talking about regions. You to
start talking about hearing of an as this sort of a meal. Wine is it,
is it something for casual drinking? So you. So you sort of start
narrowing down from this very broad picture that we have with
one of literally thousands of different types, various bottles that
can be in the store down to that last one,

Natalie: 11:45 right? Until they’re isolated. Exactly.

Tim: 11:49 And sometimes it can really be to, you know, how much they
want to spend.

Natalie: 11:55 Sure, sure. Absolutely. And so one of your papers, research
studies looked at the triggers that wine retailers use too to
encourage us to buy wine. So what’s out there in liquor stores?
Is it n dial displays? Is it certain colors? What is it that liquor
retailers use to sort of almost unconsciously trigger? Oh yeah, I
liked that one.

Tim: 12:18 Yeah, a lot. Some of it’s actually related to the wine laws of the
particular state and region. For instance, some laws will allow in-store
tastings. Okay. Some regions will not. you know, that’s
obviously one that has an installed tasting. It’s a very powerful
tool, that, that retailers will use because it allows you to try
before you buy ’em and, and feel comfortable with that wine.
And then, what it is before you actually pick it up. So that’s sort
of an impulse kind of bond. there’s also, certainly a quantity
buying, which again sometimes can be, you know, you get 10
percent off if you buy six or more or whatever that might be. So
instead of buying four bottles, you end up throwing another
couple in there. so just to fill that up, I know I do that regularly. I
get to sort of 10 bottles and then realize that I get a 15 percent
or 10 percent discount on the, on the side. So those sorts of
things. I’m placing certain promotions in aisles. I see
certainly seasonal promotions that are around Christmas,
Thanksgiving, all those sorts of things are, are important as well.

Natalie: 13:36 Right. And have you discovered in your research certain in-store
promotions that are just not effective? Like just they’ve been
tried and it just didn’t work?

Tim: 13:47 No, no, I can’t think of any you know, there’s a lot of debate
about a regional promotion put in, for instance, making Texas
its own section or should they be, should it be scattered
around? I’m in with the varietals and this, there’s still some
debate about that. One finding we did find is if there’s a, if
there’s a negative perception towards a particular region, maybe
its new people don’t really know about it or anything, then
you’re better to put it in the bowl just scattered amongst the
varietals rather than highlighting it as its own section.

Natalie: 14:25 Sure, yeah. The maturity of the industry. There are parallels there
for Niagara Okanoggen here in Canada, but I’m sure other wine
regions in the US and around the world. So, with Texas, are a
lot of retailers now highlighting them because people want to
buy local.

Tim: 14:40 Yes, yes, very much so. And also because of the, I think the
quality and maturity of the industry. Thirty years ago probably
not so much, we had about 25 wineries. Now we have
about 400, 400. One is located around the state and so it, it, it’s
moved from being just a very kind of small, almost quaint town.
Have a thing where you had cowboy boots on the, on the label
and, and, and, being very much like that too, to a lot more of a
very serious industry. We’re a with a figured out varietals that
grow best and regions and all that kind of thing.

Natalie: 15:17 Absolutely. Well, cowboy boots in Texas and mercy fields in
Australia

Tim: 16:06 Send in their own little stories of like how, how I came to love
wine.

Natalie: 16:14 Pivotal moment. Yeah, exactly. That switch because aren’t we
looking at that like, you know, my background is in marketing. I
used to work at P&G and the food brands and I have an MBA, so
blah blah blah. But I’m fascinated by wine marketing and case
studies and that’s the method I studied. So that’s why I was so
interested in tonight’s topic. But yeah, there’s usually a turning
point when someone turns onto the category, I think. I’ve been
to, I don’t know, Tim, if you have been to or are aware of stores
that will also organize wines by food pairing there, some in New
York that do like they have fish and then they have chicken and
I’m wondering what your opinion is of that.

Tim: 17:29 Yeah, you know, I think any of those ways, and actually this is
some big stores that we’ll have it by both varieties and then also
by region. but, but certainly food pairings, like a good one as
well. I’ve also seen some, by the sort of heavy light know, sort
of red, white and then heavy to light or stalled wines.

Natalie: 17:53 Right? Like a progressive wine list almost. Yeah. Yeah. So are
there unusual triggers that restaurants use to or hidden triggers
that restaurants use to get us to buy wine? Like through your
studies or even just what you’ve read?

Tim: 18:09 Yes. What we did, we did a little study once where we put one
right next to a food item. So, so we would have, you know, the chicken
item we would Chardonnay or something besides
that, like a display in the restaurant. No, we, we would, we
would just have it on the menu. Oh, I see. Okay. Sorry. , so, so
it’d be on the menu and we, , we looked at whether or not that
increased sales of, of one during that time and we found that it
did, and that’s basically was highlighting that and giving
consumers also a, a kind of a trigger and an idea of a way to, to
realize that this is a good match and make them feel a little
more comfortable. And especially outside of this work,
especially in I, I’m in a state such as Texas was and still is to
some extent a pretty new wine consuming state as well as wine
producing state. , we were in the, I think the 40th or 42nd in
terms of per capita wine consumption, for a long time, and,
and very low per capita. It was basically beer and whiskey or, or
no alcohol. And, and, so, so, so there’s been a lot of consumer
change too in terms of making this more of a wine culture here
over the last 30 years, which has been fantastic.

Natalie: 19:30 Yeah. There are so many parallels with Canada. I mean because
we are on a northern parallel and perhaps you were in the more
southern. It wasn’t traditionally a wine culture of wine growing
region and it was beer and whiskey up here to do you. Did you
have, you looked at restaurant lists where they sort of have the
anchoring cheap wine and then you go one, two up and that’s
the one you buy. Like does it, have you looked at anything like
that?

Tim: 19:55 No, we haven’t, but I am aware of that’s how a lot of
restaurants do. Do you see such wonderful wine lists and also
such some really terrible ones as well. And  I
really think it can make the success or failure of the whole
restaurant a finalist is such an important part these days. And as
that one culture is, is developing and people are expecting more
now too.

Natalie: 20:23 Yeah, absolutely. It’s all becoming more sophisticated

Tim: 20:28 and it will just add to that I want, I want to say to that I think
local wine industries play a huge role in developing that wine
consumer culture. I think if you have a local wine industry, like
in Ontario and I’d been up there and brock university and, they
do some good wine research work that, that if you have that
local wine and the street gets people out to the winery is they get
to see and hear about wine. They get to experiment and try
different wines that, those wineries and start feeling
comfortable about. They bring it home. They stopped their own
little cellar. Those things that create that wine culture. So I think
that that does play a very important role.

Natalie: 21:17 Yes. Because I think wine is a hand sell, if you will, like in a
restaurant or a liquor store. I mean it’s just so confusing. It, you
can read the first chapter of a book, you can try on a dress, but
usually, unless there’s a tasting station, you can’t try that wine.
You’ve just got the label to go on, so I think being cuddled in a
good way as a consumer through a local industry is a good
thing.

Natalie: 22:32 Dr. Tim, do you think that the bigger wineries that have more
marketing spend greatly influenced what is available and what
we drink?

Tim: 22: 39, yes they do, but increasingly the smaller wineries applying a, a
big role locally, I mean they have more access to different
markets, certainly in some parts of the US where you have
direct sales, you can get that little wine from Idaho, from
Colorado or something like that and, and, and be able to tap
into those as opposed to being stuck with, you know, the few
large brands that are there and I think that’s quite an opening up
markets and, and allowing sells directly to the consumer allows.

Natalie: 23:21 And Are you going through the same issues we are here in
Canada, like this direct shipping, is a big issue here. We, we can’t
ship across provinces. It’s actually easier for us to get a
California wine than it is from province to province. It’s insane.
Yeah. Are you experiencing that as well? We have,

Tim: 23:38 it was a sense of for the last since I’ve been involved in the US
industry, yes, that’s been ongoing. It’s a lot better right now
than it was a Texas. Certainly, we have some, we are allowed to
have a shipping in across state lines. There is some regulation
associated with that, but. But there was a time where you were
not able to get wine from California or from wherever. Yep.

Natalie: 24:06 What changed it other than lobbying politicians? Was there
anything we can do here to take as a case note study from you?

Tim: 24:14 Well, I think the thing changed for Texas was the, was that we
have a local industry. Local industry has an economic impact on
the state that brings in x number of tax dollars. It has jobs. I
think the argument of a rural development is a huge one in
terms of helping us grow our local industry in rural areas that
you know are, have been declining and I’m a. One is a great
diversification away from cotton and corn and other crops that,
that, that we had. So I think the economic argument actually is
the this is the strongest one is as well. Consumer choices is a
big one too, but that doesn’t always go, as far as, , as a site, as
jobs type Texas that a local industry can bring in and, and, and I
think if you could make the argument that we free up a, if we
can free up these markets at a, it allows for further growth and
development of local industries.

Natalie: 25:19 That is pivotal. I haven’t heard it put that way before because
we’ve talked about free my grapes up here, but the whole, I’m a
less urban and rural development jobs and, and not
concentrating everything in a city and the congestion and the
services that attend to that, like getting people with jobs, good
jobs out in rural areas, especially as farming jobs are on the
decline. Like this is such a high value-add grassroots kind of
agricultural product. I would think. Yeah, there would be a big
push to try to do that. Then we look at it,

Tim: 25:57 got a winery out there and before long we’ll be a restaurant or
two around it. And then, not someone who likes to do art
that opens up the little store and so you have a sort of cluster of
a tourism out in the rural areas that can make a big, a big
impact on the local community with, with good jobs like you said.

Natalie: 26:17 Absolutely. That’s great. so in the world of wine marketing
campaigns, it doesn’t have to be wine tourism but could be for
a particular brand. Is there one that was a disaster that you can
talk about? I would love to know the case. No,

Tim: 26:35 I couldn’t really think of any will. We don’t actually get here in
this part of the world, a lot of one marketing or particular
wineries campaigns and I don’t know whether that’s the reason
for that. but we, we don’t really get a lot of, um, a lot of major
campaigns that tend to be, get some imprint and things like
that, but not certainly not.

Natalie: 27:06 But I’d say in print. Have you found any that are particularly
well successful or not successful? Is there anything that’s caught
your eye? I mean, we don’t have a got milk campaign for wine
or at least that I’ve seen, but I noticed

Tim: 27:23 and I, and I think part of the reason for a long time those sensitivities
about that because it’s alcohol or it happens to have
alcohol as part of its makeup. and I think there was a, a concern
about that. I also think there’s a, one is such a fragmented
industry that we have a few players and then literally thousands
of thousands of small producers and trying to get sort of a, a
coordinated message is going to be pretty difficult.

Natalie: 27:59 Yeah, that’s true. There are no economies of scale it seems. And
just again, you don’t, you look at, you know, a book, a Tom
Clancy Book that was published in 1989 versus the reprint now
in 2018. It’s the same book but look at a wine vintage that are
completely different. Yeah, absolutely. \Tim, what kind of
research projects are you working on now? What’s new? What’s
new in the world of wine marketing that might interest us from
a consumer perspective?

Tim: 28:57 No, there’s a, there’s a lot of different topics. One of the things I
thought would happen is, that at some point I’d run out of
topics that we could think about in terms of wine, but it just
keeps evolving. We’re constantly, the business is constantly
evolving. It’s becoming a, seems like more global. There’s new
types of packaging, um, that are, that are coming along, um, the
new varieties, new regions, a consumer’s acting in different
ways and looking at different things differently as generations
change. And so it,  I thought it would be a little
easier to kind of figure things out and then done and move onto
beer or something, but, but it’s just something that really is, is
constantly changing what we’ve done. Some studies, for
instance, um, on, on males and females looking at that kind of
came up in some vow, our studies and looking at differences,
differences in how males and females tend to look at things.
And certainly, there’s a lot of, um, a lot of exceptions to, into
whatever roles you find.

Natalie: 30:15 Sure. But what did you find generally, what are the big
differences between the way men and women buy wine?

Tim: 30:20 Yeah. I’m. One of the first things is that men tend to be a trophy buyer,
so they buy for a salad and they like to have had things
that are rare and exceptional. Whereas women a lot more sort
of practice for more immediate consumption. they’re
conscious of, of a color and labels a lot more so than, than
men., and then in the tasting room sitting, we came across a
really interesting, my colleague Natalia, who’s listening to this
and I did a, a study. I’m looking at, what happens when people
go into a tasting room, they get free. I’m a visit to the
winery. They get, you know, a couple of free glasses of wine and
have a, have a great experience. Well, women tend to buy
either one t-shirts, whatever it else, Adam feeling of obligation,
they feel obligated because they’ve had such a great
experience.

Tim: 31:32 And so, you know, someone spent some time with me and I
really feel kind of guilty if I don’t, if I don’t buy a buy something,
now if, if, if you put $10 tasting fee on that, then that goes away
because you’ve satisfied your, your, your obligation heights and
, and actually, what we did, we did a little bit of a look at
whether or not it was actually better to be free and get people
to buy more or put $10 or whatever it is on the, on the tasting
fee  and, and not get as much in the way of sales and,
and, and we could have gone a little further on that and I think
that would be really kind of interesting to find out where that
point was, where you generate more money.

Natalie: 32:25 Crossover. So what was, what was the analysis? Is it better to be
free or not?

Tim: 32:30 Well, I think it depends, like everything with wine and a lot of
that is also a lot of that is dependent on where you are in the
region you’re in. If you’ve got literally thousands of people lined
up at your door that is wanting to just churn through them,
you’ve really got to put a fee on it and you know, do that if
you’re really trying to get people in the door and then it’s
actually makes probably more sense to have a free have free
tastings and, and, and find that people will actually buy more in
those situations. and, and then, and then miles on the other
hand that they need to feel grateful in order to, to buy. In
other words, they need to feel like they’ve had such a good
wine and such a good and feel like really good about the
experience that in other words, they don’t feel as guilty about
walking out the door without anything if they didn’t really like it.

Natalie: 33:32 Okay. So they’re not beholden. They just want to know that
they’ve had a great experience and so yes, I’ll lay down some
cash. Yeah. Interesting. Okay, so I’m going to come back and ask
you some more questions on women versus men to and take a
little tiny little break here to say if you’re enjoying this
conversation, folks, do feel free to take it to the next level of
your own wine knowledge and tasting by joining me in a free
online video class @nataliemaclean/pro. We have a lot of fun
with that. We do food pairings as well. And if you’re enjoying
this conversation, take a moment just to share it. It’s okay if
someone doesn’t get the whole thing, there’s always the video
replay, but if you share it with your friends, family, followers,
and let them know why you’re enjoying it. Comments help. That
would be great.

Tim: 34:46 Oh, did grab a bag about stuff here? So we’ll have some t-shirts
mode and various other Texas take items. And for those of you
who are following a professional football, one of our, I’m a
former football player, is with them, is with Kansas City, Patrick
Mahomes from Texas tech. And so he’s kind of one of the kinds
of professional football right now, know.

Natalie: 35:20 Yeah. I have just consumed four seasons out of five of Friday
night or Friday night lights and it’s turned me on to football and
Texas. I love it.

Tim: 35:29 Well the two go together very, very much. So yeah, that was
one of the things I really had to learn when I, when I came here.

Natalie: 35:37 Yes. Because yes,

Tim: 35:38 you’re a Kiwi, right? You’re a New Zealand from New Zealand
originally? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh my goodness. Okay. Laurie says
I’m a wine importer of Italian wine. What are the two key tips
you’d recommend when marketing focus on the winery? Focus
on the end consumer. Best Way to get the word out using
online marketing. She’s asking a good question, Lori. to me,
you know, education is the key to pretty much everything. So I
think you’ve just got to spend time educating whoever you can
find in a fun way Because once people have knowledge of, of
what did the bond you have in the region and a Bin, then you
know, that there are a lot more too. There’s just so many
different brands and styles and things that, that rule totally
confused. I don’t remember the wines I’ve had last week
and I mean you kind of get general categories, regions, but, but
it’s, it is very confusing for consumers.

Natalie: 37:10 Awesome, okay. So, so Tim, I can’t believe how this has flown
by. We’re already at quarter to seven. wow. So, I wanted to ask
you a few more, personal wine questions. kind of what’s
the best piece of wine advice you’ve ever received?

Tim: 37:29 the education brings enjoyment. and I, I really believed that
with wine, I think it’s the key, it’s the key to so many things is
that the more you know about a particular topic and the more
you learn, the more you enjoy it and you become a, you know,
looking at that bottle of wine, you suddenly sort of start
understanding the history behind the region or the um, you
know, the types of grapes that are grown, the processes, all
those, all those sorts of things add to the enjoyment of a, of a
wine is as a product in the category. So the more and more you
can do taking courses, reading books, I’m going to places if
you can, if you can travel a that’s travel as is just a beautiful wild
land, and, and, and it just reinforces all the things I’ve been
fortunate to go on a few trips,  to places that I’ve read about
and heard about. But once you go there it just reinforces, and,
and, puts those things into a whole new level.

Natalie: 38:40 Absolutely. Like I’ve been to Burgundy and just, it’s a confusing
region to start with when you taste and you start to, you’re in
the place and then you’re tasting the wine. That’s that
multisensory thing that comes together. And the other example
I would take from outside of the wine world is I was a dancer for
20 some years. So when I watched ballet or somebody’s dance, I
don’t just have an intellectual response to it. I have a muscular
response to it because I’ve been there, done that. Like it’s just a
full body kind of. And so I do believe when you educate yourself
there is deeper enjoyment. It’s okay to just ride along the
surface and have a glass and not think about it, but there’s
something to be said for really knowing the deeper levels and
saying, Whoa, I see this, I taste that, I get that. I get the
minerality of the terroir or whatever.

Tim: 39:32 Absolutely. And you know, those, those fantastic moments
when you are meeting with the winemaker or someone and
they’re going through, all, the history of the winery and,
and really talking in depth about it and try it just to me, magic
and night, that’s what the whole industry is all about.

Natalie: 39:53 Yeah, absolutely., so Tim, I’m one more question here. If you
could share a bottle of wine with anyone living or dead, who
would that be? What would the wine

Tim: 40:05 good question. I have been asked that before, you know, I, I’d
sort of have to go to a couple of people in history., probably a
Winston Churchill would be an interesting one because of his
love for champagne who could say no to, you know, good
champagne, and, and kind of, you know, and he was just an
interesting person, his writing and has all the things, leadership
and all the things he did throughout his life. And then the other
one I think it’d be maybe Thomas Jefferson again because of
how he introduced to wine. He was a big influence on introducing
wine in the US, and his knowledge and I’m certainly starting up
one there in Virginia and long.

Natalie: 40:56 Would you try to introduce both of them to Texas wine?

Tim: 40:59 Of course. Absolutely.

Natalie: 41:02 Here half a glass of this. Excellent. So is there anything that we
haven’t touched on that you’d like to mention right now, Tim?

Tim: 41: 11, I don’t think so. I think we’ve covered pretty well. Some good,
good topics. Um, but, , , you know, just, , I just say I hope that
everyone here continues Ilian and you’ve obviously got a good
group of people who want to keep learning and, and, and
thinking about one beyond just like you say, casual glass, that’ll
make a lot more interesting. So absolutely. We’ve got a really
engaged audience here. And where can we find you online,
Tim? Certainly through the Texas wine marketing research
institute at Texas Tech University. So if you look up the text,
Texas Wine Marketing Research Institute, you can, you can
track me down and a, if anyone wants to come and study here,
do some research into Texas wine, then give me a shout and
we’ll see if we can sign you up. Absolutely. I almost feel like I’m
being recruited for.

Natalie: 42:10 We’ll post that link in the facebook and also on our blog posts
so that people can find you and find the research studies you’ve
done with your fascinating. Tim, I want to thank you so much
for spending your Sunday party or Sunday evening with us. It’s
been a great discussion. Great insights. So I really appreciate it.
You’re most welcome. Thanks for having me on. Okay, bye for
now. To take care. Okay. Bye. Bye.