Introduction
Should you avoid wine with sulphites? What are some of the important differences in the way wine is marketed to men versus women? How can you practice mindful drinking without giving up the wine you love?
In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m being interviewed by Erica Diamond on The Erica Diamond Podcast.
You can find the wines we discussed here.
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Highlights
- Why did I choose to write a completely different genre for my third book, Wine Witch On Fire?
- How did I first realize my drinking was sliding away from healthy?
- Why do I say wine today is like Virginia Slims were in the 1960s?
- What are some of the stark differences in how wine is marketed to men versus women?
- What are some of the red flags that your drinking might be problematic?
- Why did I decide to focus on harm-reduction techniques instead of going sober?
- How do I now practice mindful drinking, considering that wine is integral to my career?
- Should you avoid wine with sulphites?
- What signs should you be aware of that suggest your drinking habits might be becoming unhealthy?
- What words of wisdom would I offer my younger self if I could?
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About Erica Diamond & The Erica Diamond Podcast
The Erica Diamond Podcast is getting you motivated and inspired by conversations with today’s thought leaders and coolest people. Each episode, get up close and personal with compelling guests who share stories and tips that empower you to live your best life.
Erica Diamond is a Certified Life and Career Coach and certified Yoga and Meditation Teacher who helps women completely transform their days to vibrate at a high energy frequency and feel calm at the same time. She’s the definition of multi-passionate and also can be seen as the Lifestyle & Parenting Correspondent on Global TV, on stage as a Professional Speaker, hosting The Erica Diamond Podcast, teaching Busy To Bliss and trying her hand in the kitchen (to many blunders!).
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- Erica Diamond’s Website | EricaDiamond.com
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- Diary of a Book Launch: An Insider Peek from Idea to Publication
- Wine Witch on Fire Free Companion Guide for Book Clubs
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- Unreserved Wine Talk | Episode 25: Pairing Wine and Yoga to Unwined with Morgan Perry
- My new class The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner And How To Fix Them Forever
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Transcript
Natalie MacLean (00:00:00) – What is the deal on sulfites? There are more sulfites in a glass of orange juice than an entire bottle of wine. There are sulfates on dried fruit on those buffets in restaurants. Sulfites exist in nature, and they’re very prevalent in a lot of food and drink. And yet wine gets a bad rap. Often it’ll say on the bottle of sulfites. I think people often get overly concerned about sulfites, and not as much concerned about how much they’re consuming. So those headaches that a lot of people get are more about drinking too much than sulfites.
Natalie MacLean (00:00:40) – Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.
Natalie MacLean (00:01:22) – Welcome to.
Natalie MacLean (00:01:23) – Episode 282. Should you avoid.
Natalie MacLean (00:01:28) – Wine with.
Natalie MacLean (00:01:28) – Sulfites or be concerned about them?
Natalie MacLean (00:01:31) – What are some important differences in the way that wine is marketed to men versus women? And how can you practice mindful drinking without giving up the wine you love? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in my conversation with Erica Diamond on The Erica Diamond Podcast. Eric is actually interviewing me, and we also touch on my struggles with mental health and alcohol. In other wine news, I’ll be chatting about the impact of the April 1st excise tax on Canadian wineries on CTV news at 6 p.m. this evening. This topic is more business related than my usual food and wine pairing subjects. However, I believe this issue is really crucial to the development of our wine industry in Canada and deserves your attention. Also, it wakes up my MBA brain and business background and I love a good debate. So I’ll give you my take on this issue and I’d love to hear from you as well.
Natalie MacLean (00:02:33) – I believe that the latest excise tax, along with soaring inflation, is really squeezing Canadian wineries, most of which are small, family run farms with fewer than 20 employees. It also gives an unfair advantage to foreign wines coming into the market. They’re subsidized by their own governments in ways that Canadian wineries are not. With billions in funding each year for everything from production to marketing. For example, a medium sized Canadian winery pays $358,000 in excise tax a year. Just across the border in New York state, a winery of the same size pays only 27,000in excise tax. In France, it’s 9000. In Italy and Spain, it’s zero. That’s cash flow that could be reinvested in a very capital intensive business with the high costs of equipment, presses, barrels and the land, as well as really long time horizons before there’s even a return on investment. It takes vines, on average, seven years before they come into full maturity to produce the grapes that make top notch wines. This reinvestment would represent a much larger return for our national and regional economies versus this upfront tax grab.
Natalie MacLean (00:03:50) – Plus, lumping Canadian wineries in with polluting automobiles and cigarettes under this syntax is unfair, especially when wine is the highest value added agricultural product we produce in this country. It adds 45,000 jobs, mostly in rural areas where it’s hard to find work and injects $11.6 billion into our economy every year. And yet, 73% of the price of wines goes to fees. Government owned liquor stores, provincial and federal governments, wineries have just 27% left to pay for grapes, labor, land bottles, marketing and other costs. You might ask, well, doesn’t the price cap on the excise tax help? Well, when you’re already paying among the highest taxes in the world, any reduction of tax burden helps, but it’s still too steep. Canadian wineries operate on razor thin margins. Most don’t produce enough wine to get into the government owned liquor stores across the country. The government taxes Canadian wineries as though they are foreign imports, and no other wine producing region does this to its own wines. Do you think that this increased tax will put some wineries out of business? Well, dozens of Canadian wineries have gone bankrupt or are up for sale, or were purchased by foreign investors due to the triple hit of the pandemic, when they had to close their doors to winery visitors and couldn’t sell to restaurants.
Natalie MacLean (00:05:18) – 40 year high inflation rates and now these increased taxes. More than 70% of the wine sold in Canada is imported wine from much larger producing countries such as France, Italy, Spain, the US and Australia. In fact, there are eight wineries in California that individually produce more wine than all of Canada. They dominate our market and receive generous government funding support, along with much lower tax levels, so much so that the prices for their value brands in Canadian liquor stores are below the cost of making wine in Canada. I should add that I drink and enjoy wines from around the world. I give them high ratings when deserved, of course, and I believe they have a solid place in the Canadian market. After all, the beauty of wine is in its diversity. I’m just advocating for a level playing field for Canadian producers to compete. How do you think the government should tax wineries? I think indexing tax increases with inflation is punitive, especially when post-pandemic inflation rates have hit 40 year highs. Tax increases should be debated and voted on by Parliament, and consider both the extreme foreign competition and the fact that Canadian wineries represent a cornerstone of this country’s rural economy.
Natalie MacLean (00:06:41) – Also, wine is an agricultural product very susceptible to climate change, as we’ve seen in B.C., where they just lost 97% of their crop this year due to an early frost. Wine isn’t a widget that you can make in a factory. It’s a grassroots agricultural product. But isn’t this the government’s way of decreasing alcohol consumption? Raising taxes on wine doesn’t always mean that prices go up and therefore consumption goes down. Many Canadian wineries just take the tax height as another hit to their bottom line and keep prices the same, because if they increase their prices, consumers will switch to lower priced imported wine. Meanwhile, imported wines with much higher productions and economies of scale can absorb this tax increase easily into their costs without raising prices as well. Health Canada’s guidelines have remained the same since 2011, advising a maximum of 1 to 2 glasses of wine per day for women, 2 to 3 for men. In fact, Winegrowers Canada, representing 800 wineries across the country, launched a campaign last year to encourage moderation. Wine is an important part of many diverse cultures, and many people, including me, feel it’s part of our social well-being over dinner with friends and family in moderation.
Natalie MacLean (00:08:02) – Any final thoughts? Yes. Support Canadian wineries by purchasing them in the liquor store or directly from the winery online, as most will ship to your door. We vote with our dollars. I’ve been reviewing these wines for 20 years and they stand shoulder to shoulder with the best from around the world. They have the competition medals to prove it. If there was ever a time to buy local, drink local now, is it so that we have these wines in the future and all the richness they bring to our tables, our lives and our country? Speaking of supporting local or at least someone you know, have you read wine which on fire, rising from the ashes of divorce, defamation and drinking too much? If yes, well then, have you bought a copy for a friend or family member? Please do that if you’d like to support this podcast that I do for you on a volunteer basis to ensure it continues. You can order the book for yourself or for someone else from any online retailer now, no matter where you live.
Natalie MacLean (00:09:04) – It usually arrives in a day or two. And of course, the e-book is instant. It’s a fast read. Every little bit helps spread the message in this book of hope, justice, and resilience. You can send a copy directly to a friend or family member via the online retailer, and make their day when a gift arrives in the mail, rather than another bill. I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers worldwide at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash to a two. If you’ve read the book or are reading it, I’d love to hear from you and Natalie at Natalie MacLean. Com. Okay, on with the show.
Erica Diamond (00:09:46) – Welcome back to the show. Today we have a wonderful guest and an interesting topic. Our topic. Wine. Wine. Socially acceptable in crowds. True, but many teeter the line between healthy relationship and problem. Natalie MacLean named the world’s best drinks journalist at the World Food Media Awards, has also won for James Beard Foundation Journalism Awards. She’s the author of Red, White and Drunk All Over and Unquenchable.
Erica Diamond (00:10:19) – In her new memoir, wine, which on fire Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, defamation and Drinking Too Much, recently became a national bestseller. She hosts the New York Times recommended podcast on Reserve Wine Talk, and offers popular online wine and food pairing classes at Natalie MacLean. Com I’m really excited to dive in! Welcome to the show, Natalie.
Natalie MacLean (00:10:41) – It’s so good to be here with you. Erika. Thank you for having me.
Erica Diamond (00:10:44) – I’m really excited to talk today because I have worked with women, I would say over 20 years, and we’re going to dive in. I’m going to save my questions. But wine is tricky because hard drugs are not socially acceptable, right? We don’t we don’t see people doing that at a dinner table. But many have said that wine is a true poison and a drug. But we see our friends doing that so the lines can get blurry. And I’m super excited to dive in. This book honestly looks so stellar. Wine which on fire, rising from the ashes of divorce, defamation and drinking too much.
Erica Diamond (00:11:21) – Amazing title, by the way. Thank you. Tell me how this book came to be.
Natalie MacLean (00:11:25) – Well, I had written two books on wine published and successful with Penguin Random House, and then I sort of cast about not knowing what to do for a third one because I thought, oh gosh, am I going to rinse and repeat, do the same thing? It was a formula that worked, you know, go visit an exotic vineyard in some lovely setting, talk to a slightly unhinged winemaker who will give me non PR approved quotes and taste wines and do something weird like go shark diving or milk a goat and and learn about wine along the way. So that was a lot of fun, but I thought, I don’t know if I can do this a third time. So then 2012 landed and I call it my no good, terrible, very bad vintage. Everything went wrong. Everything blew up. Starting with at the beginning of the year, my husband of 20 years asked for a divorce and I was blindsided.
Natalie MacLean (00:12:19) – I didn’t even see it coming because we didn’t fight. And but you know, there’s always other issues going on when that happens. And then at the end of the year, I went through an online mobbing, mostly from a small group of white male wine writers, but that, of course, everything spread virally back then. It still does today. It’s it’s great clickbait when there’s something negative about somebody. So in between, in response to the depression from the divorce, the anxiety from the online mobbing, I started drinking too much. So wine, which on fire is what I describe as a coming of middle age story about transforming your life and finding love along the way. It does have a happy ending despite the dark themes. It has humor. Some people think wine which on fire. That’s got to be about an angry woman who drinks a lot of wine and owns a lot of cats. but it’s not. So that’s kind of the bookends of that terrible, no good vintage. And that’s what I dive into in the book dealing with those issues.
Erica Diamond (00:13:20) – Wow. So that was a handful. Maybe we’re gonna talk. That was that was that was a mouthful. Exactly. I have a few questions about your story, and that is can you take us back to that time? So you kind of gave us a time frame where you’re drinking when just because I have a big community of women and I’ve heard from them for many years, and I know that many of them teeter on that line of what is safe and maybe what is unsafe. So if you can take us back to the time where you’re drinking, went from, as you said, you know, in check, it’s my job to not in Czech. And how did you know that that line had eroded during this dark and difficult time in your life?
Natalie MacLean (00:13:58) – It is a slow slide, as you said. So I had always separated my professional wine from my personal wine. So, you know, I may taste 30 cabernets and that may sound like fun, but it’s not. When it’s 9 a.m. and you’re spitting all the samples and you know your enamel is slowly eroding that.
Erica Diamond (00:14:16) – By the way, that does make sense to me. That makes perfect sense to me when it’s for a job, even when you’re a musician, if you’re listening to music, not to sit back and enjoy it. When you have to pick something apart, that is a job. I get that.
Natalie MacLean (00:14:28) – Exactly. It’s like a movie critic who goes and has to make notes on all the plot development, the characters and narrative arc, as opposed to just going and watching a movie. So. But I still know tiny violins played for me in terms of, oh, you have to drink for a living. And of course, wine mom culture was prevalent then it’s even more so today. I mean, study after study keeps coming out about how women do have a drinking problem because it is socially approved. Wine is, I compare it to the Virginia Slims of the 60s. Not that I was even smoking age back then, let alone born, but they called them freedom torches. You’ve made it baby and wine today is this way.
Natalie MacLean (00:15:07) – Or at least it’s marketed as this way of either oblivious motherhood or just rewarding yourself for another day of exhaustion. No one’s thanking mommy, so mommy will think herself to another drink and then another one, you know? And the message on some bottles. Erica. Seems to me we’re either babes or battle axes, so we’re either reaching for brands like Stiletto or Little Black dress, right?
Erica Diamond (00:15:31) – Or mommy juice.
Natalie MacLean (00:15:32) – Mommy juice.
Natalie MacLean (00:15:33) – Mommy’s timeout. You know, and the underlying message is that we need a reason to have a glass of wine. So it’s a girls night, you know, getting together, girls night out or it’s a fancy occasion or it’s just motherhood, whereas wine is not marketed to men that way. Not that I’ve seen a man has a drink because he wants one. No one asks him why, but even another layer under that Erica is that it’s all these lol laugh out loud memes on social media. But under that there I think there’s a bitter aftertaste of thankless ness. Hopelessness. I’ve got to have another glass of wine because no one appreciates what I’m doing, so why not? So that’s kind of the whole I’ve gone off on a tangent on why mom culture, but that was, you know, surrounding me at the time.
Natalie MacLean (00:16:19) – No one is checking. Everyone expects it. It’s your job. But it’s also very acceptable for. Any woman, even outside the industry. You know, how did I realize I had a problem? Is I had met a new man, a wonderful man who’s. We are still together today. It’s over ten years now. But, you know, we would go out to restaurants and I would do things like start to pre drink and that sounds odd, but you know, have a glass of wine so that I’d be relaxed by the time we arrived at the restaurant. And he said well when you do that we’re not on the same plane. Like let me keep pace with you. He’s he’s a magical man. But I called him Buzz Killington. I said, I just want to have fun, but there are all these little habits that started coming out, like, you know, telling him three times in a night, you’re the luckiest man on the planet and like, whatever, weird things. And so I realized, you know, my my behavior was getting out of control, especially when you start not remembering parts of it the next morning, which is technically a blackout, you may still be functioning, but if there are gaps in your memory and you’re kind of looking at the people you love thinking, did I say something stupid last night? It’s becoming problematic for sure.
Natalie MacLean (00:17:32) – For sure. So were.
Erica Diamond (00:17:33) – You. So that’s kind of when you knew those were sort of your red flags, right? Yes. Were you hiding your drinking from your family? Because, you know, again, I’ve heard from women over the years, most of them describe themselves as hiding their drinking from their family. And that was also a red flag to them. And a telltale sign if they couldn’t be forthright, they were hiding, then that to them, made them realize that there’s something going on here.
Natalie MacLean (00:17:57) – Absolutely. And so you can always find someone or an example culturally, of someone drinking more than you are. So sure.
Erica Diamond (00:18:04) – Or to validate or to validate the drinking, right, or to validate.
Natalie MacLean (00:18:08) – Either side of the equation. You know, I wasn’t hiding vodka bottles in the diaper bag, so I didn’t have a problem. I wasn’t under a bridge with a brown bag. But you know, that sort of pre drink before dinner. I would not let him see the glass. It would be hidden behind the cupboard.
Natalie MacLean (00:18:25) – So there was sneaky behaviour going on. Or at dinner parties I had my. I used to call them. I put out bottles called decoy wines so people could top themselves up. And then I’d have my special bottle back, you know, where no one could see it. And I’d be topping myself up generously so no one would notice. But they did notice, of course, the behaviour. So I guess there’s always a a climax or a come to realization moment. And it was a dinner party where, you know, apparently I didn’t say anything odd or whatever, but I went back into my office and there was a small sofa and I just fell asleep. So my partner said goodbye to everyone on his own. So that was embarrassing. And from there I realised, you know, I have to get help, and help for me came in the form of therapy and there’s a lot of these sessions in the book which people find helpful, like being a fly in the wall, because the question is, you know, you do this for a living.
Natalie MacLean (00:19:26) – How did you get it back under control?
Erica Diamond (00:19:29) – Yeah. Yeah, that’s that’s for sure. My, my my question. No, my my question of course is describe the moment you made the decision.
Natalie MacLean (00:19:37) – Yeah.
Erica Diamond (00:19:38) – To stop over drinking as you put it. And then of course we’re going to go there.
Natalie MacLean (00:19:43) – Yeah.
Erica Diamond (00:19:43) – Yeah. So so what, what was that pivotal moment where, you know over drinking the signs are there. When did you decide to make it? I guess just as your job again and not your unfortunate personal, you know. Yeah.
Natalie MacLean (00:19:58) – Struggle. I even asked my therapist, should I just quit? Should I go sober? And that’s a solution for many people. That is right. They need to do it. And alcoholism runs in my family, so my Celtic relatives always find it amusing. They say something like the moth likes to fly very close to the the flame, but I didn’t. It was my living. It’s what I invested 20 years in. But, you know, I had to consider the real possibility that I do need to walk away from this if it’s becoming destructive.
Natalie MacLean (00:20:26) – But my therapist at the time, and still she’s still my therapist today, she said, let’s focus on harm reduction first, because she said, I think going cold turkey A might be punitive be might not be the right solution for you. And see, in my experience, often doesn’t work with a lot of people telling them to just quit. But again, I preface this I’m not a counselor or whatever. if that’s the solution that’s needed, go with it. But you know what prompted this whole thing to even get therapy in the first place was I had a 14 year old son at the time. I didn’t want to normalize this behavior for him. I didn’t want him to have this issue. I didn’t want him to go down this path or go further than I had. I wanted to get my nights back. You know, I used to complain I couldn’t read at night because I had a marinated brain. Of course you’re going to fall asleep at seven on the sofa if you’ve had two, three glasses of wine or more.
Natalie MacLean (00:21:23) – I wanted to get my own self-respect back. And know my boundaries and be able to control them. As a control freak, this was a good urge. I wanted to command my own limits and not just be. Oh well, I’ve had two glasses. Why not? Three, three. One out. Four. Do I hear five? Let’s see. Five. And of course, the the love and respect of a new partner. I didn’t want to lose him. He we were early on in our relationship. So it’s like well you know you have kind of a couple choices here of what you want in your life and who you want to be.
Erica Diamond (00:21:56) – Oh, yeah. I’m so happy to hear that. You did, of course, get it under control. And now talk to me today. We touched on it. How are you able to separate the two? Wine is your job, right? Wine is your living. So how are you able to resist the temptation, as you said, to drink, taste and spit and, you know, maybe swallow.
Erica Diamond (00:22:19) – Exactly, exactly. How do you keep that line together?
Natalie MacLean (00:22:22) – Well, fortunately or unfortunately, my over drinking was in response to a couple of horrific life events.
Erica Diamond (00:22:30) – Yeah, to trauma to trauma.
Natalie MacLean (00:22:32) – Absolutely. And so the first thing I always tell people is deal with those underlying issues, get help. I’m a big proponent of therapy. And so as we dealt with the depression from the divorce, the anxiety from the online mobbing that need for a drink as a crutch dramatically receded because I was coping in different ways, not only with, you know, talk therapy, but also with, Zoloft, which is a antidepressant. I’m still on it. And through a whole lot of learned coping behaviors inside the therapy sessions. So fundamentally, I had to deal with that first before even thinking about the drinking. Then from there, it became much easier to manage. And we developed a lot of coping tactics like the first and I still use it today is what was the thought just before the thought that said, I need a drink.
Erica Diamond (00:23:28) – Oh that’s powerful. That’s your introduction into pouring yourself a glass. That’s exactly that’s the catalyst.
Natalie MacLean (00:23:35) – And when it’s automatic and you go for that wine, you know, you need a just a five second circuit breaker. That thought before the thought, if you can step back and say, whoa, what just preceded that or what feeling preceded that? And was it about relieving stress or thankfulness or was it just, oh, I think I’ll enjoy this lovely Pinot noir. I’m feeling relaxed already. This is going to be lovely with dinner. If it’s about stress, give yourself that five seconds. Circuit breaker. Go for a walk, take a bath, watch a show. Change your energy for me often. Beautiful. Yeah, walking was my magic magical kind of remedy.
Erica Diamond (00:24:14) – I would throw in, do a meditation or some deep breathing. Just kind of rewiring our brain for calm through deep breathing just changes the chemistry in us.
Natalie MacLean (00:24:24) – It does, it does. For me, it was that agitation. So I had to get out the physical energy and walking works.
Natalie MacLean (00:24:31) – But, you know, deep breathing. I’ve used those techniques as well. Meditation. I meditate daily. Now I can see my swirl of thoughts and say, I am not those thoughts. I can see the thoughts and I’m going to decide how to deal with them.
Erica Diamond (00:24:44) – I’m the boss. Just think how big that is. And I’m the boss of what that thing is on the table, that bottle. And I’m in charge of that. It’s not in charge of me.
Natalie MacLean (00:24:52) – Exactly.
Erica Diamond (00:24:53) – But that’s a big transition where it no longer has the grip over you. You’ve got the grip over it.
Natalie MacLean (00:24:58) – Exactly as I say in the book, it’s really hard to read the message on the label from inside the bottle. So you have got to get out of that through therapy, through all kinds of things, and be able to be in control of the bottle. That’s a.
Erica Diamond (00:25:15) – Great. So I have a question that I wasn’t preparing, but just off kind of on the wine topic. So for me, it’s funny, that is actually the only thing that I drink I have, I would say about 2 to 3 glasses a week.
Erica Diamond (00:25:29) – I love it, I really enjoy it. And in fact, the way that I drink those 2 to 3 glasses a week is I don’t even like to drink at dinner. My one glass of wine. My husband doesn’t drink often, he just doesn’t appreciate alcohol. So for me, my glass of wine is at 5:00 while I’m cooking by myself. But for me, it’s okay because I stop after one. I don’t even usually finish it. And that’s how I appreciate wine. But as someone who is very conscious of her body and being healthy so wine expert, I’m told if I am going to have those two three glasses of wine a week to really go organic because the sulfites is bad for us, what is the what is the deal on that and the sulfites and the healthiness or unhealthy ness of that on our body?
Natalie MacLean (00:26:13) – Sure, I’m happy to share what I’ve learned. I’m not a doctor or health expert, but I’m always happy to share this. This is an this.
Erica Diamond (00:26:19) – Is an off topic.
Erica Diamond (00:26:20) – Before we close the interview down, what’s the deal with the sulfites in my in my glasses?
Natalie MacLean (00:26:26) – Yeah, absolutely.
Natalie MacLean (00:26:27) – So there are more sulfites in a glass of orange juice than an entire bottle of wine. There are sulfates on dried fruit on those buffets in restaurants. Sulfites exist in nature, and they’re very prevalent in a lot of food and drink. And yet wine gets a bad rap often. So it says.
Erica Diamond (00:26:46) – It. It’ll say on the bottle contains sulfites. But I don’t think orange juice bottles do they say contain sulfites? I don’t believe so.
Natalie MacLean (00:26:53) – I don’t know, I haven’t looked closely, but maybe we need to have another discussion about cutting back on that orange juice. But I think people often get overly concerned about sulfites, and not as much concerned about how much they’re consuming. So those headaches that a lot of people get are more about drinking too much than sulfites. Right now, some people genuinely have an allergic reaction to sulfites. It’s about 5% of the population. And sulfites, you know, they’re a preservative.
Natalie MacLean (00:27:22) – Even organic wines that might say on the label, no, sulfites added, sulfites are still in the wine. They exist naturally. So you will have fewer sulfites in an organic wine. But that may not be what you’re reacting to if you react to sulfites. Yeah.
Erica Diamond (00:27:40) – No, no, I don’t react at all. I’m just trying to keep my body as clean as possible. And I would add another habit, not a habit, but to add to your tips. I loved your tips to share with women. I think another nice tip would be a few years ago I used to. Like I said, I enjoy having my glass while I cook. That’s kind of my thing. I drink water with dinner every night, but it would be not to or to try not to. It’s a bit of contradictory of what I’m saying, because I enjoy my wine at home while I’m cooking, but to really, I very rarely know open bottles at home. So even though that’s where I do enjoy my wine, I’ll reserve my wine only for restaurants now, usually.
Erica Diamond (00:28:16) – And one glass. And I know, and I sip it slowly because I for me, I’m really meticulous. I don’t want to. I’ve read also, you know, correlations between, you know, red wine and breast cancer. I have breast cancer in my family. I love my glass of wine, but I’m really trying to be mindful, as I said, not for alcoholism purposes but for health purposes. So I will do that. So I no longer very rarely open up a bottle at home unless we’re having, you know, company over. And I savor it, reserve it for a restaurant, that one glass and I sip it slowly just to try and keep my body as clean as possible.
Natalie MacLean (00:28:51) – Sure. Absolutely.
Erica Diamond (00:28:53) – So. So I just want to know quickly before and I wanted to talk about wine culture and mommy juice. We spoke about it. But what would advice would you have for women? We touched on a little bit who are on that slippery slope. How do they know? So you gave some tips.
Erica Diamond (00:29:07) – If they’re struggling, how does a woman know that she is encroaching an unhealthy relationship with alcohol? What are some of those signs? I know we touched on them a little bit, not remembering what happened the night before. What are some of those signs that you’re drinking is not in check?
Natalie MacLean (00:29:23) – I think as women, we often second guess ourselves so much and we have such a strong intuition about a lot of things. So if you’re thinking about it, it doesn’t automatically mean that you have a problem. But if you’re thinking about it, explore that denial. It doesn’t serve anybody. So as I said, I’m a big fan of therapy. Maybe explore it with someone professionally. There’s lots of charts in terms of what is moderation for women and men. It’s different because we are more made up of fat than muscle than compared to men. We’re often smaller than men, so alcohol absorbs into our system more quickly. We also don’t have the enzyme that men have to process alcohol as quickly. So it gets into our bloodstream.
Natalie MacLean (00:30:07) – So, you know, the guidelines keep changing. It’s anywhere from 1 to 2 glasses a day for women versus 2 to 3 for men, but no more than 14 a week for women, 21 for men.
Erica Diamond (00:30:19) – But they’ve changed it. In Canada, it is now two drinks a week for men and women, and they say anything over two drinks a week is risk of, you know, heart disease, stroke and other. I mean that that is a major thing. So they haven’t updated their guidelines. Those are now the Canadian guidelines.
Natalie MacLean (00:30:37) – Erica, if I may, Health Canada has not changed the guidelines. Those guidelines came from the Canadian Center of Substance Abuse.
Erica Diamond (00:30:44) – Okay. Thank you for clarifying.
Natalie MacLean (00:30:46) – Yeah, absolutely. Their mandate, their goal is zero consumption of all alcohol. And so they comb through 6000 studies to find the 16 that would agree with their mandate. So it it does come from that perspective or bias if you will. But Health Canada’s guidelines have not changed and I did I saw those alarming headlines.
Erica Diamond (00:31:07) – Yes. Right. It was a recent. It was recent okay. Very recent. Thank you for clarifying.
Natalie MacLean (00:31:12) – Yeah. Well as someone who’s in this business, it sure got my attention. And I wanted to dig into it exactly where those guidelines were coming from. Because I don’t want to mislead people either. Like, you know, I want to share whatever I learn, good or bad, just FYI. That’s all.
Erica Diamond (00:31:28) – Perfect. So thank you. I just if there’s any other tips you wanted to share again, how to know if our drinking is not in check. Just wanted to revisit that. Anything else that we left out? Absolutely.
Natalie MacLean (00:31:39) – It’s it’s kind of also how do you feel in the morning. Did you enjoy it again those kind of like what is your motivation for drinking? How do you feel about it and yourself? It’s very much an intuition thing, which I think we should rely on more than we do.
Erica Diamond (00:31:56) – Beautiful. Natalie, what would you tell your younger self today after all the lessons and wisdom acquired? And that’s a lot of wisdom.
Natalie MacLean (00:32:06) – Well, I always think of a memoir as a hug for your younger self when you felt you were alone. And that’s why I wrote wine, which on fire is now I see that younger self. I almost think of her as a younger sister struggling with competitiveness, perfectionism over drinking. And I just want to say, I got you. You know, you’re going to be fine. I’m right here behind you. This, of course, is my older self with all the wisdom accumulated. But if I can step back now and think, well, in 20 years, will I feel the same way? I think I will. So, you know, to trust yourself, to say, hey, it’ll be fine. The things you’re worried about today will probably work out. And if not, you have the strength and resilience to deal with them. You know, in the wine world, Erica, we have a term called dry extract. And it’s what’s left of wine after all of the moisture has been boiled out of it.
Natalie MacLean (00:33:03) – It’s kind of its essential taste, flavor components. And I think as humans, we have that inside us. Dry extract. It’s when life has burned us down to our essence. And I wish misfortune on no one. But when you go through life’s dumpster fires, you find out what kind of strength and resilience that you have inside you, and you will be surprised.
Erica Diamond (00:33:28) – Oh yeah. What is the quote? Right? Women, we don’t know how we’re like a teabag. We don’t know how strong we are until we’re dipped in hot water and squeezed. Exactly, exactly. Natalie, where can we find you? If someone wants to connect with you, learn more. Get your book, read your columns. Where can we find you?
Natalie MacLean (00:33:45) – Oh, thank you.
Natalie MacLean (00:33:46) – For asking, Erica. So either Natalie MacLean dot com my name. Although sometimes that’s tricky to spell. So I also have the URL wine which on fire. And there you’ll find lots of information about the book. I have a free book club guide with questions.
Natalie MacLean (00:34:02) – You know, it really prompts discussions about how do you feel about your own relationship to alcohol, what do you think about sexist marketing, and so on. But two friends can get the companion guide. It’s free and talk about it as they read the book. I also have lots of free bonuses for those who do buy the book, like online wine tastings and signed book plates if you want to give it as a gift.
Erica Diamond (00:34:25) – Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. You were wonderful and and I appreciate your candidness and honesty. So thank you.
Natalie MacLean (00:34:33) – Oh thank you Erica. This is wonderful. I love your questions. It really got me thinking again. So thank you. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Erica in the show notes. You’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Erica, links to her website and podcast, the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book now online, no matter where you live.
Natalie MacLean (00:35:03) – You can also find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me, called the five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash class. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash 202. Email me if you have a SIP tip question, or if you’ve read my book or in the process of reading it at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. If you missed episode 25, go back and take a listen. I chat about pairing wine and yoga with sommelier Morgan Perry. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.
Morgan Perry (00:35:43) – Because I come from a wine marketing background, and also my personal beliefs are really to be socially responsible. That comes first before everything. So we actually don’t drink any wine during the yoga class. We just drink at the end. But we are learning about the wine during the class. So how it works is a 45 minute flow. I will teach you maybe 20 wine facts.
Morgan Perry (00:36:07) – So I actually taught at a vineyard today and we went through we learned about Chardonnay. I gave them about 20 facts about Chardonnay, and they’re holding poses that are kind of easy to post. So if you’re a Yogi, you’ll know. Warrior two chair pose. You may argue with me about if that one’s easy to hold. Downward facing dog. Sometimes I have them in child’s pose if I’m talking a little bit longer. So those kinds of poses where I can give you a quick fact, and then we move through a vinyasa so we keep their bodies moving, but then they’ll pause for a fact.
Natalie MacLean (00:36:42) – You won’t want to miss next week when we chat with Barbara Scott Goodman, author of Wine Time 70 recipes for Simple Bites that pair perfectly with wine and wine bites, simple morsels that pair perfectly with wine, among many other books. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell one friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more tips on moderating your alcohol and the effect and impact of sulfites.
Natalie MacLean (00:37:12) – It’s easy to find my podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean wine on their favorite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a lovely alcohol free wine.
Natalie MacLean (00:37:42) – You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.
