Introduction
Which aspects of the Beamsville Bench make it particularly suited for growing grapes for wine? Why is Pinot Noir called the heartbreak grape? What are some ways for wine professionals and wine lovers to moderate their consumption?
In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m being interviewed by Sandy Dawkins and Michelle Lester, hosts of the Wines To Find podcast.
You can find the wines we discussed here.
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Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.
I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real time.
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Highlights
- What makes podcasting such a powerful medium?
- Which aspects of the Beamsville Bench make it particularly suited for growing grapes for wine?
- What does Thirty Bench Small Lot Pinot Noir taste like and which food pairings work well?
- How does Trader Joe’s Santa Rita Hills Pinot Noir stack up as a $10 wine?
- Why is Pinot Noir my heartbreak grape?
- How did my taste in wine evolve over the years?
- How does climate impact the acidity of grapes?
- What will you learn in my free wine and food pairing class?
- How can you pair foods with wine according to the texture?
- What intrigued Sandy about the Oregon Wine Company’s Rascal Pinot Noir label?
- How could all wine lovers benefit if wine labels had ingredient/nutrition labels?
- What are the benefits of QR codes on wine labels?
- What can you expect from Oregon Wine Company’s Rascal Pinot Noir?
- What do you need to consider when tasting multiple wines?
- How did I use a “do the thing” approach when writing my first two wine books?
- Which simple tip can you use to find excellent wine at bargain prices?
- What can you expect from my upcoming memoir centered on the worst vintage of my life?
- How is wine marketed differently to men versus women?
- Why is it important to me to take a closer look at my consumption and participation in the negative aspects of wine culture?
Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips
About Sandy Dawkins and Michelle Lester
The Wines To Find Podcast was created after the two hosts, sisters Sandy and Michelle, travelled together to France and Italy in 2019. Both sisters are wine enthusiasts that have tracked their wine purchases, palates and pairings for years. As a way to continue the thrill of their European trip and to document their wine journey, they created the Wines To Find Podcast with the goal of spending time together, further growing their palates, and sharing wine stories from guests. Wines To Find features two new wines tasted for the first time by the sisters & guests, who span the spectrum of the wine industry from winemakers, owners, growers, sommeliers, fellow enthusiasts and more.
Sandy Dawkins is a consultant in the public safety communications industry, licensed realtor and former teacher. Wife and mother of 3, avid reader and podcast listener, boating enthusiast and traveler. Sandy has a proclivity for cooking with a focus on fresh, natural, and healthfully sourced ingredients. Wine enthusiast with focus on food pairings and cooking with wine in mind
Michelle Lester is the director of operations for a back office services/asset management company. Wife and mother of two, avid reader, podcast listener, college sports and travel enthusiast, expert Yelp and travel review consumer. Michelle has an inclination to cook with focus on ethnic foods and dishes that hearken back to travel destinations. Wine enthusiast with focus on region specificity and terroir.
Together, Sandy and Michelle take the WTF out of picking a great wine.
Resources
- Connect with Sandy Dawkins and Michelle Lester & Wines To Find
- Wines We Tasted
- Coravin Wine Preservation System
- Repour Wine Saver
- Diary of a Book Launch: An Insider Peek from Idea to Publication
- My Books:
- Unreserved Wine Talk | Episode
- My new class The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner And How To Fix Them Forever
Tag Me on Social
Tag me on social media if you enjoyed the episode:
- @nataliemaclean and @natdecants on Facebook
- @nataliemaclean on Twitter
- @nataliemacleanwine on Instagram
- @nataliemaclean on LinkedIn
- Email Me at [email protected]
Thirsty for more?
- Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
- You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
- The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.
Transcript
Natalie MacLean (00:00):
It’s not necessarily that Pinot is a better wine, but it certainly is more subtle. Pinot is just such a textural wine in the mouth feel. It goes beyond the flavours. People eventually either love it or hate it. It takes a stand. It knows what it is. It really is defined by where it grows. It’s very susceptible to mildew and rot and pests and disease because it is thin-skinned. The difference between when it’s really great and when it’s really bad, meaning herbal under ripe, is so exciting because the range can be so great between those high highs and those low lows. That it’s a gamble if you don’t know the wine. I guess that’s what draws me to Pinot Noir.
Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people and hauntingly beautiful places and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now, pass me that bottle please and let’s get started.
(01:34):
Welcome to episode 225. Which aspects of the Beamsville Bench make it particularly suited for growing wine grapes? Why is Pinot noir called the Heartbreak Grape? And what are some ways for wine professionals and wine lovers to moderate their consumption? You’ll hear those tips and stories in my chat with sisters Sandy Dawkins and Michelle Lester, who co-host the podcast Wines To Find. They’re actually interviewing me this time.
Now, a quick update on my upcoming memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation, and Drinking Too much.
(02:18):
One of the many juicy bonuses I’ve created for you when you pre-order the memoir is my own private book club gathering and wine tasting online. Come on your own or bring your book club or wine group members with you if they’ve pre-ordered it, too. I’ll start by guiding you through a tasting of wines mentioned in the book. I’ll choose those that are widely available, but don’t worry if you can’t find them all because I’ll suggest substitutes. I’ll be reading some of my favorite passages in the book and talking about some of the hardest parts of writing this memoir and those that brought me the most joy. Then I’ll open it up to a Q and A. Ask me anything about the book, wine, life. If you’re curious about the process of writing a book or what has happened to the people mentioned in the memoir since then, this is your time to find out.
(03:07):
Think of this as the ultimate wine and book lovers book club gathering. We’re going to have so much fun, maybe a few tears, and you’ll feel that connection I think with others who share your passion for reading and thinking and drinking. You’ll find links to all the juicy bonuses and retailers to pre-order the book no matter where you live at WineWitchOnFire.com. Yep, I got the URL WineWitchOnFire.com. Your support for this 10 year labour of love would mean the world to me. Thank you.
Here’s a review from Courtney Brillhart, an early reader from Columbus, Ohio. “This is a page turner because I wanted to know what happened next. There were a lot of surprising moments. I felt I learned a lot and at times I felt sad, empathetic, angry and relieved. I could really relate to the anxiety she was feeling, but in this context that was new for me.This memoir is similar to one I read recently Broken by Jenny Lawson. I learned a lot about the wine industry and the behind the scenes that I wasn’t aware of previously. For better or worse, I would also say it gave me an inside look into how wine reviewers do their job and what’s expected of them. I’m going to be more intentional in the wines I buy or the wineries I support. I also learned about what it’s like running an online business. It was an interesting take on the damage that can be done to someone whose business is primarily online. At first, I didn’t really understand the witch theme, but as the story was pieced together it absolutely made sense later in the book. Overall, I liked the witch theme in general. It’s certainly original. I’m sure that it took a lot of courage to write this, but I think she has a wonderful book here. The more vulnerable we are, the better we will all be, in my opinion.”
Mine, too. Courtney. Thank you and thank you for the five star rating. I’ve posted a link to a blog post called Diary of a Book Launch in the show notes at NatalieMacLcan.com 225. This is where I also share more behind the scenes stories about the journey of taking this memoir from idea to publication. If you’d like a more intimate insider seat beside me on this journey, please let me know you’d like to become an early reader and get a sneak peek at the book before it’s published. Email me at [email protected] Okay, on with the show.
Michelle Lester (05:37):
Welcome to episode 127 of Wines to Find. Our wines today are a Trader Joe Santa Rita Hills Pinot Noir, and a rascal Pinot Noir from Oregon Wine Company. Our guest today is Natalie MacLean. Natalie is an accomplished award-winning author of several books about wine. Podcast host of the Unreserved Wine Talk, she offers food and wine pairings. And it has to be noted, she is one of Sandy’s favourites in terms of wine resources. Welcome Natalie to Wines To Find.
Natalie MacLean (06:08):
It’s so great to be here with you, Sandy and Michelle, and thank you. I’m glad I’m resourceful for you. Always happy to help.
Sandy Dawkins (06:15):
Well, it definitely is. Even before we started this podcast, I would listen to your podcast to get ideas as far as what wines to do. But now I almost find myself I can’t listen to what Natalie’s saying because I don’t want to copy her. So sometimes I’ll go in and I just want to hear what she’s saying. Go in.
Natalie MacLean (06:36):
Oh, that’s so sweet.
Michelle Lester (06:37):
Imitation is the highest form of podcast,
Natalie MacLean (06:38):
Exactly. I’m sure you find it, too, the power of podcasts. I find it so intimate. Someone’s telling you a bedtime story almost. And I love that way to communicate with wine lovers because I think, you know, can take the deep dive as opposed to a two minute Facebook video or whatever. I love this medium.
Sandy Dawkins (07:00):
Yes, we do, too. All right, well, let’s hop right on into wine number one, which is a pinot that you brought Natalie. And Pinot Noir is one of your favourites, right?
Natalie MacLean (07:12):
It is. I love Pinot Noir and the one I’ve brought today is from Thirty Bench, which is a small Niagara winery in Ontario. And it’s made by Emma Garner, who I think is a rockstar winemaker. One of our best in Canada. She really does specialize in Pinot Noir and Riesling in particular, which of course do well in our cool climate in Canada. So I guess I’ll pour and whatever you like. I can talk about the wine. I can talk about Emma. I can talk about Niagara. Wherever you’d like to start.
Michelle Lester (07:47):
Well, how about let folks know what’s in the glass. Let’s start with that.
Natalie MacLean (07:52):
Sure, absolutely. So this wine comes from they call it the Beamsville Bench, which is part of the Niagara escarpment. So it’s kind of tucked under the Niagara escarpment, which is on a lake, a large lake. And so it benefits from sort of a protected area geographically – and that’s why it also benefits the wine – and that has this nice long growing season. Because in Canada, of course, we’re challenged. We have a cooler climate on average than most of the states, especially California, and so we’re looking for these warm pockets. It’s down of course in southern Ontario but it’s also got the lake effect, which will store up warmth and release it in the winter so that the vines don’t freeze. And then in the summer, it cools off the vines when it gets especially hot. So it’s a very special little place on the planet, and it once was covered by a prehistoric ocean. A lot of wine vineyards.
Michelle Lester (08:58):
I didn’t realize that way was covered by ocean.
Natalie MacLean (09:01):
Yeah, yeah, it was. And so when it receded, of course what it left were all these tiny sea creatures, the fossils, which of course became limestone and shale, and that is just such great soil drainage wise for vines. I mean, it doesn’t hold the water, so it makes those vines suffer and we know suffering is good for vines and sometimes people. So it makes these wonderful, nervy, edgy wines in terms of their acidity with the balance of the fruit. And I love that in both grapes and people, people who are a bit edgy, because it’s just so interesting. It’s so enlivening and it makes it such a great food wine as well.
Michelle Lester (09:43):
Yeah. Okay. So what does it taste like?
Natalie MacLean (09:48):
So what does it taste like, yeah, get on with it. So I have tasted this wine many times before, so I’m not going to try to sip and talk at the same time. I’ll sip whenever I can when you guys are talking. But it has these aromas of ripe cherry, sort of black cherry, some spice, some earth. It doesn’t have that barnyard that sometimes people, sometimes people don’t like. Can be the result of brettanomyces. But this has sort of freshly turned earth and mostly the berry aromas, although it’s not heavy, really overly ripe fruit. So I find it very zingy on the palate, mouthwatering. Just looking at it, it’s very Pavlovian. My mouth is watering as I look at the wine even though I haven’t tasted it yet.
And I just think this makes it so wonderful for so many dishes from beef bourguignon you know beef burgundy cooked in red wine, beef or veal or roast chicken or even grilled salmon. I mean, it’s just got such a wide range. But what I almost love the most about it is it’s got this sort of silky, velvety texture. No furry mouth tannins. And it brings to mind the famous California winemaker André Tchelistcheff, and he said God made Cabernet Sauvignon but the devil made Pinot Noir because it’s just so seductive and so wonderful. But of course it’s also called the Heart Break grape as you know because it’s difficult to grow and make and expensive.
Michelle Lester (11:20):
Finicky.
Natalie MacLean (11:21):
Yeah, finicky. Exactly.
Michelle Lester (11:23):
Yeah, please do.
Natalie MacLean (11:24):
I’m going to take a taste now, so I just want to make sure that my notes were correct. Of course I like to be thorough. So good, so juicy along the sides and a nice long finish that keeps coming back and back. I love that.
Michelle Lester (11:43):
Very nice. Very nice. Excellent. All right, well, do we want to go ahead and do one of ours and then we’ll all be sipping at the same time?
Sandy Dawkins
Okay, that’s a good idea. Yes.
Natalie MacLean (11:53):
Okay. Yes, please. Yes.
Michelle Lester (11:54):
Yeah.
Natalie MacLean (11:54):
Very communal.
Michelle Lester (11:55):
Yes. Not fair for just you’d be sitting there drinking wine. Not Natalie.
Natalie MacLean (12:00):
No, I know what it’s like. Like aww when do we get to do our part?
Sandy Dawkins (12:03):
So I think I have our wine number one, Michelle, which let me see, I can turn it so you guys can see it. We decided to do a Trader Joe’s wine because so many people love to go there and get wine because it’s usually a good price point. And when I was in there, I noticed this Pinot was from Santa Rita Hills, and we just had a wine maker on that had some wonderful wine from Santa Rita Hills. So I wanted to compare. His was probably about $40, $50. This was $10. So since we just had it so recently, I wanted to be able to compare it so while the taste was. And so this is a 2020 and it’s lot 729, so that gives you an idea.
Natalie MacLean (12:55):
Yeah.
Sandy Dawkins (12:55):
All right.
Michelle Lester (12:56):
While the taste was fresh in our heads.
Natalie MacLean (13:00):
Oh, wow. And so Trader Joe’s, just for anyone who doesn’t know, say in Canada, that’s a chain of stores. Is it more like Whole Foods or Costco or is it somewhere in between?
Michelle Lester (13:10):
It’s in between. We have Aldi here and we have Trader Joe’s and they’re very similar. I believe German is the company of origin and Trader Joe’s is a step above Aldi but I believe they’re owned by two brothers. So it’s two different grocery chains and they tend to have gourmet type stuff but at good values. And then they also have a lot of fruits, and they’re known for the fruits and vegetables as well, but not on the high end. Trader Joe’s is a little bit more than Aldi but it’s just accessible. Good food at accessible prices.
Sandy Dawkins (13:40):
And generally it’s organic or something along those lines. It’s more healthful based so it’s almost like Whole Foods but not quite as expensive.
Natalie MacLean (13:50):
Okay, gotcha. Yeah, not the whole paycheck.
Sandy Dawkins (13:53):
All right. Yeah, so let’s go ahead and look at this wine, too. It’s actually very dark and deep rich for a Pinot. Whenever I look through it, it does have a little translucency but I really cannot see my hand through it.
Natalie MacLean (14:09):
Wow, that is dark. And the Santa Rita Hills, is it a very warm climate there? For those who may not be exactly sure where in California this is.
Sandy Dawkins (14:18):
That’s in Sonoma, so it’s actually Santa Rita Hills is a little bit cooler because of the coastal breeze. So you will get that cooling effect because of that.
Natalie MacLean (14:30):
Sure.
Sandy Dawkins (14:31):
Oh, and on the nose very cherry already.
Natalie MacLean (14:39):
Very signature of Pinot, cherry.
Sandy Dawkins (14:41):
Michelle.
Natalie MacLean (14:43):
Whether it’s red or dark.
Michelle Lester (14:46):
Oh, it’s nice. It’s pleasant.
Natalie MacLean (14:47):
I’m just very nice sniffing and swirling mine as I watch you.
Sandy Dawkins (14:50):
It is cherry, strawberry, very fruit forward. Not a lot of earth in this one at all. And it definitely brings all the juices to your mouth as you taste it. It gets your juices going.
Michelle Lester
It does.
Natalie MacLean (15:08):
Yeah. Literally whet your appetite for food. That’s what a great wine does. So it must be pretty great for the price point especially. That is incredible.
Sandy Dawkins (15:19):
I think $10. I think this is actually pretty good.
Natalie MacLean (15:24):
Oh yeah.
Sandy Dawkins (15:25):
Well, Natalie, you were saying that this was a heartbreak grape. And we all know the story of Sideways and that was his heartbreak grape. But why is it your heartbreak grape?
Natalie MacLean (15:38):
Well, I don’t know if it’s a perverse love of things that are difficult to love. Again, speaking globally across wines and people but Pinot Noir wasn’t one of the first wines I tasted or loved. I loved full bodied Cabernet and Shiraz. They were just so much easier to love on first sip. But Pinot I think a lot of people come round to it a bit later because of that edgy acidity.
Sandy Dawkins (16:05):
That’s Michelle. She was all Cabernet girl and then I was the Pinot girl. And she was like oh but now we’ve turned her over into Team Pinot.
Natalie MacLean (16:15):
All right. Our people. Okay. So I think as you explore wines, it’s not necessarily that Pinot is a better wine, but it certainly is more subtle. And so in the early days, I wanted the most bang for my buck, the most flavor, the most alcohol, whatever that I could get. But as I grew to love wine, and especially with food, I wanted combinations like wines that did not clobber the dish, especially if I wasn’t having a steak where Cabernet would do well, but a lighter dish. I wanted some more equal weight and flavour between the glass and the plate. And so I started onto Pinot from warm climates because they are fruitier. I would suspect if we had a side to side tasting with your Pinot and my Pinot, mine would be more acidic just because it’s a cooler climate, even though Sonoma is cool for California.
(17:15):
So as you know, when it’s a cool climate, the grapes don’t ripen as much. They preserve more of their acidity and that’s what stays with the wine. But that said, I mean they’re still very, very delicious. And I think Pinot is just such a textural wine in the mouth feel. It goes beyond the flavours. But I think people eventually either love it or hate it. It’s a bit of a polarizing wine, and I like that too in grapes and people, because it takes a stand. It knows what it is. It really is defined by where it grows because it is, as you’ve said, finicky. So it’s very susceptible, more susceptible than other grapes to mildew and rot and pests and disease and all the rest of it because it is thin skinned. It’s got a much thinner skin. And so I find I guess the difference between when it’s really great and when it’s really bad – bad meaning herbal, under ripe just ugh – is so exciting because the range can be so great between those high highs and those low lows that it’s almost like a gamble if you don’t know the wine in tasting it.
(18:27):
And so when you get something that’s great, you go, ah, yes, so good. So I guess that’s what draws me to Pinot Noir. And it does have kind of some snobby connotations, not just because it’s expensive, hard to appreciate. But you’ve got Miles in Sideways and he is an intellectual and he doesn’t want to have anything to do with Merlot, which is just too easy to understand. Exactly, I’m not drinking anymore of that Merlot. So I think it is a wine for everyone, but it’s not a wine that everyone will grow to love. But join us, please join our little happy clan of Pinot lovers here. We’re waiting for you.
Sandy Dawkins (19:11):
No no Merlot. Well, you had mentioned that you had started to get into Pinot so that you could have a wider variety of wine pairings. And you do a class that you offer for free about wine pairings, and I actually did that back when you first had it out. And I found that very, very helpful. So yeah, tell people just a little snippet about it because it is a great free resource for people.
Natalie MacLean (19:39):
Absolutely. Folks can find it at my site NatalieMaclean.com/class and you can sign up. There’s a whole variety of times when you can take the class, but basically I go over some key concepts in food and wine pairing. So one of my favorite sayings, I’m trying to remember who said this, but pair the wine to the diner, not the dinner.
If you don’t like Pinot or Cabernet, don’t force it on the food just because it happens to be the perfect pairing. It really is about finding wines that you love first and foremost. And if the pairing doesn’t work out, have a bun in between. I mean, there’s lots of workarounds. Not to get too uptight about it, but I love little things that help me remember what might be good pairing tips. Would you put lemon or butter on this dish? So if you would normally slather some butter over say a big juicy steak, then you’re probably going to want a big full-bodied wine like your Cabernet. But if you’re going to squeeze lemon on a fish dish, say then you’re looking for wine with some acidity, whether it’s Pinot or maybe into the bright whites, a Riesling or a Sauvignon Blanc or something like that. So I always look at the butter lemon test as a way of just a quick tip for finding great pairings no matter where you are in a restaurant or a store.
Sandy Dawkins (21:07):
That to me even goes to the mouthfeel if you automatically need. To me, it’s the texture of the food and how heavy it is, and the texture of the wine is kind of where I like to start to pair.
Natalie MacLean (21:19):
Exactly. I love that the texture has to be just as important.
Michelle Lester (21:24):
I think people don’t realize that wine itself has texture and that plays a part. And there’s certain wines that I just don’t care for because they’re too thin. They don’t have the mouth feel that I personally look for. And so that’s exactly illustrated in your example. If you want butter, you’re not ever going to like the lemon, so don’t force it. I like that. Yeah.
Sandy Dawkins (21:47):
Yeah.
Natalie MacLean (21:47):
Exactly. And so there’s a variety of tips in that free class. But then if you want to take a deeper dive, I offer paid courses so we just go into everything. Then in the paid courses, we have a whole segment on fast food and wine, so from fried chicken to pizza to hamburgers, and then we’ll do a segment on a multi-course dinner party and all the different wine pairings that you might want to try or traditional Turkey dinner. So we have a lot of fun with it. I love pairing because I think it brings in people in the most accessible way to wine through food first. So I get people who are complete novices with wine coming to my courses, but I also do get sommelier taking the paid courses because a lot of the traditional designations don’t focus heavily on that food pairing component, and yet it’s so central to what they do.
Sandy Dawkins (22:41):
I would think that they would have a little section about that.
Michelle Lester (22:44):
Yeah, you can.
Natalie MacLean (22:45):
Yes. I’m sure they have small sections, but the sommeliers who’ve been taking my.
Sandy Dawkins (22:49):
Yours is going a little bit, just even broader.
Natalie MacLean
It’s all there.
Sandy Dawkins
Okay.
Natalie MacLean (22:52):
Exactly. All the different food categories.
Michelle Lester (22:56):
Well and I know I feel like sometimes I stump the somm when I say, well, what would you pair with this? And sometimes you almost feel like the response is rote or well, this or this, and you really want deeper than rote when you know what you’re doing. You know, want to go a little bit further. So that’s good to exactly help them hone their skills as well.
Natalie MacLean (23:13):
Exactly, especially if you’ve got four diners and someone’s having the steak, someone’s having the fish
Sandy Dawkins (23:18):
And they want to share one bottle.
Natalie MacLean (23:20):
They want one bottle.
Sandy Dawkins (23:21):
Yeah.
Natalie MacLean (23:22):
What are you going to recommend? In that case, just so I don’t beg the question here, but I do recommend what I call switch hitter wines, which can please a number of palates but also pair well with a number of dishes. And happily, Pinot Noir is one of them. And I would say Riesling is another that can kind of go both ways in palates and dishes. If you are looking for just one bottle and you’ve got high divergence on dishes and palates.
Sandy Dawkins (23:47):
Oh, excellent. Already dropping some tips here, aren’t we today?
Michelle Lester (23:51):
Dropping the bombs.
Sandy Dawkins (23:54):
Do we want to go ahead and move into wine number two, Michelle, before we get into some more questions for Natalie?
Michelle Lester (24:00):
Reach over and grab it. This is so, okay, so we got this Rascal. It’s the Oregon Wine Company. It is a Pinot Noir, but what intrigued Sandy about it is the wine label itself. So it actually has what we would consider the more traditional serving portion and information, which we are advocates of knowing what you’re consuming. And we just found it very interesting that it actually had a wine label on it.
Sandy Dawkins (24:31):
So I have never ever seen a wine label that has the specific calories and a true food label. I had never seen that before. And when as soon as I saw this, I was like, we have got to show this to people.
Michelle Lester (24:47):
In the style of the USDA format that people are familiar with. And so the serving size is five ounces, it’s 118 calories. And let me tell you, that’s a lot of calories for five ounces. Carbohydrates is 3.2 grams, no fat and no proteins, so you’re not getting any goodies there, just the carbs. But anyway, we found that very, very interesting and helpful for the consumer who likes to know what they’re consuming. So that was why we chose that.
Natalie MacLean (25:13):
Absolutely. I think that should be part of wine labels. I know it changes every year, but even a QR code that would point to that info on the website. I think it is doable for wine labels either that way or some sort of scannable code
Sandy Dawkins (25:30):
Or the QR code. Exactly, yes. And so many times whenever I go to even look to scan for the tech sheet just so that I’ll, if I want to really know what the soil type is, when it was harvested, I’m surprised more people don’t have those QR codes. I know some do, but not everybody. And it’s just such an easy, doable thing. I don’t know why everybody’s not doing it.
Michelle Lester (25:54):
It’s so intimidating to think, to me, looking at it a QR code just looks like, oh my gosh, that must be so hard. And then when you find out, no, it’s just this little thing and it puts information at your fingertips so quickly. It’s like, yeah, we need to broadcast that how easy it is to do.
Natalie MacLean (26:10):
Exactly. And I think more of us got used to it during Covid, because I know restaurants here, you go in, you’d scan the QR code for the menu because they didn’t want to give you paper or other formats of the menu just to reduce contact. But so I think people are coming around to it. But I think ingredient labeling on wine is a hot issue, and we are moving that way, I believe, because consumers do want more information. But also I think there’s a counter movement toward a lot of the marketing of wine as self-care and purporting that wine is still alcohol. It can be a toxin, but I think we’re looking for more and more transparency in labeling, as you say, the ingredients, but also serving sizes. People have no idea often, especially women, just how many glasses is moderation, especially when wines can vary from 10% alcohol to 16%. And it makes a huge difference.
Michelle Lester (27:03):
And that’s where we are. We have been focusing on how to fit wine into our balance lifestyle really does. And that is such a trick because five ounces, 118 calories, not a lot of people have a lot of give in that direction. So then you really have to pick and choose, and it’s just a whole nother thing to think about and consider. But let’s consider this glass of wine. So it’s light. I believe it’s a little bit lighter than the previous one.
Sandy Dawkins (27:30):
Yeah, I was going to say.
Michelle Lester (27:33):
Yeah, I’m trying to give a little woohoo.
Sandy Dawkins (27:36):
It’s from Oregon. I don’t know if you told everyone. So that is going to be cooler than Santa Rita Hills, and it is lighter, it’s more transparent. I can then see my fingers through the glass. I don’t know if y’all can see that.
Natalie MacLean (27:50):
Yeah, definitely different climate there
Sandy Dawkins (27:52):
There is some viscosity because there is a good bit of legs coming down.
Natalie MacLean (28:00):
Does it say the alcohol percentage on the label?
Michelle Lester (28:03):
Yeah, I’m sure it does.
Natalie MacLean (28:05):
I should check mine, too.
Michelle Lester (28:08):
This one is 13.5, so it’s up there. And I was thinking with the calories being where they were, that it probably was going to feel a bit higher.
Sandy Dawkins (28:15):
Mine was 13, not 14.
Michelle Lester (28:17):
Mine was 13.5. What was yours, Natalie?
Natalie MacLean (28:20):
This is 12.5. So you can see the effect of a cool climate. It’s not getting as much sugar in the grapes to convert to alcohol, so it makes sense that this would be lower. But also Emma Gardner, the winemaker, strives to pack so much flavour and just so little alcohol. I’m so impressed with what she does.
Sandy Dawkins (28:38):
Ooh, that’s always a good thing.
Natalie MacLean
Yes, it is.
Sandy Dawkins
Here we go.
Michelle Lester (28:41):
Alright, so it’s a little more closed off than the last one. Not as aromatic. Definitely.
Sandy Dawkins (28:51):
Definitely more acidic, and it’s more sour.
Michelle Lester (28:56):
This one in my opinion. Tart. Very tart. Very tart, very tart. But the tart isn’t acidic, as acidic as some can be. And it does have a nice mouth feel. It isn’t as thin as some, which again is a thing for me.
Natalie MacLean (29:09):
So if you were doing a tasting of all three wines in a row, would you recommend starting with the most tart and then moving to the more fleshy, ripe Pinot of the three?
Sandy Dawkins (29:20):
I would.
Natalie MacLean (29:21):
Yeah. I think so too. If people are trying to do different wines. Sometimes if it is reversed, the one that is less ripe can taste sort of wimpy by comparison, right?
Sandy Dawkins (29:35):
Well, and it’s just so pulls at your tongue so much more that then that does not help. And it makes it seem more sour or more stringent than what it actually is. So you’re not getting the true effect of what the wine is. Like this, I think is really, we should have probably have flipped it because this one is already, to me, more pulling on the tongue and taking all the fruit away. I think I would’ve preferred to have had this one first.
Michelle Lester (30:04):
This one is a little drier. The other one was juicier in the mouth but it’s not as thin, I don’t think. So it’s a cross. And what happens sometimes for me, when you get that nice full mouth feel and then you go backwards to a lighter, thinner, it doesn’t do the lighter, thinner the service that it needs. That’s really why the weight of the wine is important in the tasting process for me.
Natalie MacLean (30:28):
Yes. I always liken it to the movies, especially now that Top Gun is out. You don’t want to start with your biggest special effect at the beginning. You want the big bang either midway through or near the end.
Sandy Dawkins (30:42):
Yeah, your climax. Well that kind of leads into where you are already thinking of climax for your books. You’ve done what, two full books now and you’re writing your third. Can you tell us a little bit about those?
Natalie MacLean (30:58):
The first book was called Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass. And that you can see how seriously I take my subject or myself, but I had a lot of fun. I took the approach of do the thing, don’t just report on it or interview about it. So I became a sommelier for a night in a fancy five star restaurant. I helped with the Harvest with Randall Grahm at Bonny Doon Winery in California. I worked a wine shop in New York City. So instead of just interviewing a winemaker, a sommelier, someone who works at a wine store for all the tips, I tried to do it and experience it, which I think allowed me to get some deeper insights and gave me lots of opportunities to make fun of myself. So I was able to include some humor at my own expense. But yeah it’s. Again I admire the New Journalists. There was a journalist called George Plimpton, an American journalist, and he spent a year playing in the NFL to write a book about it. It wasn’t his career. He was a journalist. He wasn’t back there on the bleachers. He was in the game literally. But a lot of them had been known.
Michelle Lester (32:11):
He had to have had some skill. Well.
Sandy Dawkins (32:12):
He must, yeah, I’m just thinking to be able to do that. Yeah.
Natalie MacLean (32:16):
Yeah. He had to have some aptitude for it, for sure, not to get clobbered on the field. But I was able to interview all sorts of interesting people. Domaine Romanée-Conti in Burgundy, like the sort of holy grail of Pinot Noir. And just get into all sorts of things. But that was book number one, so that you kind of learn how to appreciate wine, buy, pair it with food and so on.
And then book number two, the title was Unquenchable and the subtitle was A Tipsy Search for the World’s Best Bargain bottles because I am a wine cheap skate by heart. And what I was doing there was the same approach, but this time looking for great values in the world. So where can we find really excellent wines without overpaying? And so what came out of that book, in addition to adventures on the wine trail, going to all these different regions and hanging out with winemakers was tips like go South. So in many regions, California, France, Italy, the cache expensive wines tend to be in the north and the less expensive in the south. So California, you think Napa and Sonoma. You go south to Paso Robles, you’ll probably get better values. In France. Burgundy and Bordeaux, go south to the Languedoc. Italy, Piedmont, Tuscany, go South to Sicily. And you’ll often get, they’re lesser established regions, but they have the warmth to ripen the grapes. They have different cost structure where you’re going to get more deals.
Sandy Dawkins (33:48):
Why do you think that is? I mean, if it’s everywhere, if it’s California, France, Italy, why do you say North is expensive and then you go more South is less expensive?
Natalie MacLean (34:01):
I don’t know if it’s a history of the North developing their brands and industry more quickly, becoming more established earlier. And the south always being looked down on as peasant wines. I don’t think Robles is peasant wines, but I do think in Sicily. And those were very country wines and they didn’t have a lot of cache. Whereas in the North, if you look at Italy, that’s where all the fashion was. Gucci, Versace, the cars, Ferrari, all the industry was in the north, the brand development, the marquee names. And in the south, they just sort of made country wines for their own consumption. But now of course, they’re making them for the world and they’ve improved their techniques and the technology and they just offer incredible value.
Sandy Dawkins (34:48):
It parallels a lot of society. It’s very good to know.
Natalie MacLean (34:53):
It does, doesn’t it? Yeah, exactly.
Sandy Dawkins (34:55):
Excellent. So those are your two books, and now your third book that you’re currently writing is in the works. So tell us a little bit what the idea is of that book.
Natalie MacLean (35:06):
So this title could change but I think we’ve got it. The title is Wine Witch on Fire. It’s a memoir and the subtitle is Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Depression, and Drinking Too Much. And yeah, it’s not exactly the sunny journey I took in the first two books.
Sandy Dawkins (35:25):
Wow. Ouch.
Natalie MacLean (35:28):
Exactly, exactly. There’s still humour, and there’s still wine but
Sandy Dawkins (35:32):
That’s the weight, that’s the weight of it right there. That’s your third course,
Natalie MacLean (35:36):
A memoir. It’s focused on one particular year, my worst vintage of my life, which was 2012. And it starts with my divorce that comes out of the blue for me and then ends with kind of a social media meltdown. So it’s got all the things. Some people hear the book description think is this fiction or non-fiction? And I have to say it’s a true story. It’s my story. This year that had it all. Not that great, yeah. So I have the description, which I can share with you if you like. I can read it like a movie trailer. In a world where one woman. Just kidding.
So this is the searingly honest memoir of one woman’s struggle to write her own story in the glamorous but sexist wine industry. Natalie MacLean is a bestselling wine author, married to a high powered CEO – I really do need that movie trailer voice – when everything goes wrong. Her husband of 20 years suddenly asks for a divorce. Still reeling, she faces an onslaught of attacks from an online mob who could destroy her career. She waivers between retreating into despair and drinking and rallying to reclaim her son and self-worth. She chronicles the worst vintage of her life with vulnerability and humour, including escapades dating zero effort men and wine soaked get togethers with girlfriends. Her memoir reveals the corrosive chauvinism at the heart of the wine world, the slick marketing, encouraging women to drink too much, and the societal pressure to conform to the approved narrative. This is the true story of what can happen when you discover your own power to transform your life and love.
Sandy Dawkins (37:13):
Well, I cannot wait to hear it. And I want to hone in on that marketing to women to over drink. I cannot stand the mommy wine culture.
Natalie MacLean (37:27):
Yes.
Sandy Dawkins (37:28):
The mommy juice. That whole thing just irks me. Or the mommy juice. Sounds like you’re going to really hit that hard. So it sounds like you have the same thoughts we do on it. What exactly are your thoughts on that and how do you think it occurred and how can we stop it?
Natalie MacLean (37:47):
We are going to solve it all today, ladies. Yeah, that wine mom culture. I mean, as you probably know, various studies have revealed that women buy 80% of the wine. 80%. We drink 66% of it and yet we were an untapped market. But what happened when wine marketers woke up to this is they started treating women like cash cows, stupid cash cows actually, that we needed to be given a reason to drink. So it was girls night out or whatever. We need an occasion. Whereas wines were marketed to men because they just wanted a drink. They didn’t need an occasion or permission to drink. So they weren’t need a reason, but we somehow need a reason.
Sandy Dawkins (38:32):
They didn’t need a reason.
Natalie MacLean (38:33):
This spa weekend. So gals all get together and that spawned a whole raft of things from pink labels to these, I mean, there are wines called Mommy’s Juice and Mommy’s Time Out and Mad Housewife and Strut and Stiletto with all the red lips and high heels. And I just think that it’s wink, wink, nudge, nudge, but it’s thinly veiled joke, which is not that funny and is just meant to demean women. That we can’t be as much connoisseurs as men can. And I don’t know what started it, but I think the need to need for sales. It’s always market driven, isn’t it? Business wise to tap into the women as a market. But it’s just been done so crassly and even in my book, I think one of the most egregious examples were the series of wines that was brought out for The Handmaids Tale, which I don’t know if you’ve watched the television series or read the book by Margaret Atwood.
Michelle Lester (39:35):
I watch it, yeah. I didn’t even know that there was a wine marketed.
Natalie MacLean (39:42):
Oh yeah. It’s just over the top because the book is very powerful in,
Michelle Lester (39:48):
I’m writing that down.
Natalie MacLean (39:49):
They took them off the market after a big social media backlash because
Michelle Lester (39:52):
Was that the social media war that you had?
Natalie MacLean (39:55):
No, not me. I had another personal war, but I go into what it is, the whole cancel culture and everything else, but I survived to tell the tale. But yeah, Handmaid’s Tale is just. The wines were just over the top. They were comparing the women, the characters. They were personifying them as wines. And as we know, it’s a very serious, deep kind of story and it just trivialized the whole story. But yeah, I think, I don’t know, there’s such a confluence in addition to the market pressure to find new markets, and now we’re seeing the advent of clean wines, and yoga and wine, and all the rest of it which is still marketed toward women. It’s just the next generation of these wines are coming out with these kind of labels. And you know what to do to combat it is we vote with our dollars. So (a) don’t buy them, but (b) I don’t know I think we can do our part on social media, too. There’s a lot of wine memes and I get sucked into them too. If it doesn’t come from the sparkling region in France, the Champagne region in France, then it’s just ordinary mansplaining. Sparkling mansplaining. Anyway, there’s all kinds of these memes.
Michelle Lester (41:10):
Oh, I haven’t seen that one.
Natalie MacLean (41:11):
Wine is to women as duct tape is to men. It fixes everything. All this kind of stuff. And I will chuckle or smile, but then I think, what is this perpetuating? And then I kind of tried to dig another layer deeper because I asked what is my role in perpetuating this? Am I bringing more pain or pleasure into the world? Because my shtick, if you look back at the titles of my books Red, White and Drunk All Over my consumption was fodder for joking about myself, which is a double-edged sword. It can also be an enabler or people thinking well it’s not so serious. She’s a woman. She likes a drink or three. So I get into that too because I am a writer whether or not you like the term influencer, but I participate in that culture or was participating in it and am sort of perpetuating it. And so I kind of dig into that too, because I have to be honest and turn the question on myself as well.
Michelle Lester (42:15):
And for ourselves, that’s what we are in the same boat. Because when we started two and a half years ago, we wanted to learn more about wine, and then it became, it’s a double-edged sword because really to learn more about wine, you do have to drink wine. You have to drink a lot. But you have to be cognizant of where and when and how, and not slipping into it becoming an excuse to just drink.
And so we kind of step back. And wine is very complex. It should be a treat. To me just going and I respect the idea of a value and getting a value wine, but I would rather save my dollars and my calories for that nice treat wine than I would finding that $10 one that allows you to have it five times a week. And so we’ve tried to really be cognizant of that, and not that the $10 wines aren’t going to be good because you can find those values as well, but finding the balance between why we’re seeking it out and what we’re trying to put out in the world is important.
And I think you’ve learned that, too, is you don’t want to contribute to a negative when you want to contribute to a positive. And wine is a positive society. The people in it are great. The stories in it are great, but you don’t want to allow it to become something that drags people down. And unfortunately, the marketing is enabling that, right, like we said.
Natalie MacLean (43:33):
Yeah, exactly. It’s so easy to slip into it when it’s what you do. I’m surrounded by bottles everywhere where I work, and it’s easy to give it the mask off, oh, I need to do this. This is my job. But there are ways for both professionals and just wine lovers to moderate their consumption. You’re talking about drink less, but better. I’ll do things like being more conscious about how much I’m drinking. So if I open a bottle, I’ll pour half of it into a clean, empty bottle, a half bottle so it doesn’t get oxygen, ice, and I can save that for another night rather than thinking, oh I just opened this really great wine. I better finish it or that sort of thing.
Michelle Lester (44:12):
Better not waste it.
Sandy Dawkins (44:16):
I actually took your tip of doing that, Natalie, where I went and bought with the half bottles, the 350, just so that I could pour it into what my leftover wine, so it wouldn’t, like you said, become oxygen, ice, and then I just pump it out and just let it sit because.
Michelle Lester (44:32):
Okay, so that’s a good tip. So you buy a smaller vessel to store it, you basically create your own split.
Sandy Dawkins (44:39):
Yeah. You create your own split. Yeah.
Michelle Lester (44:41):
Exactly. That’s very good.
Natalie MacLean (44:43):
It works on so many levels because it makes you very conscious of how much you’re drinking. Okay, this is a half bottle. It makes you not feel ripped off the next night because you drank three quarters of the bottle and then feel like.
Sandy Dawkins (44:55):
Oh, have to do another one. It’s only got a little bit left in this.
Natalie MacLean (44:57):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Or thinking this doesn’t taste so good. It’s a little bit oxidative. So by filling that half bottle, then you reduce.
Michelle Lester (45:06):
All that makes sense. Makes sense. This and the Corvin is a good thing to have as well.
Natalie MacLean (45:10):
Corvin is great, a great device. And there’s a little recycled plastic thing called Repour.
Sandy Dawkins (45:16):
Yeah.
Natalie MacLean (45:17):
It’s really good. It scavenges the oxygen.
Michelle Lester (45:18):
We’ve had that on the show and had that. That’s a great, yeah. Okay,
Sandy Dawkins (45:22):
Great. Is it’s a great tool.
Natalie MacLean (45:25):
Yes.
Sandy Dawkins (45:25):
This has been such a fun interview, Natalie. It’s kind like girl fanning over here.
Natalie MacLean (45:33):
No, I love chatting with you ladies. I mean, that just flew by. It was like, wow. We could chat all day.
Michelle Lester (45:38):
Well, so the other thing that we do though before we wrap up is we do rate the wines, and we usually do it without the guests, but you haven’t contributed the wine, so we don’t have to worry about that. And we’re doing your recording device. So you’re going to stay on a rate the wines with us?
Natalie MacLean (45:57):
I will. Yeah, absolutely.
Sandy Dawkins (46:01):
Well, let’s tell her what our rating system is. Sure. We don’t rate by quality. We rate for our own personal interests, because whenever we’re drinking these, we want to know what we want to go and buy again. So we do it by corks one through five. The first cork is find a sink. That is just not good. Two corks is you’ll finish the glass just to be polite. Three corks is, oh that was nice I think I’ll have another glass. Four corks is, oh that was really good I think I’ll have to go find it and get another bottle. Try it again. Five corks is, oh, that one’s. I love it. I’m going to have to go buy a case.
Natalie MacLean (46:37):
Wow. Okay. Okay. I love that system.
Sandy Dawkins (46:41):
All right, so let’s go ahead and Michelle, let’s start off so that she can get an idea. And we’ll start off with our wine number one, which was wine number two from Santa Rita Hills. Oh, let’s see. I got to taste it again.
Natalie MacLean (46:58):
Oh, very thorough of you. I’m tasting mine, too.
Michelle Lester (47:04):
That one was very tart. $10.
Sandy Dawkins (47:07):
You know what, Michelle? I think I may have flipped mine around because my wine number two and yours I think are different because this one’s more tart. My second one.
Michelle Lester (47:18):
I think you must have flipped them because the first one, and I was wondering when you were saying that, so full disclosure, what we’d usually do, I don’t know if you did it, but I write my number on them. Did you write your numbers? I didn’t write my number. That’s another wine tool. We have the marker there.
Sandy Dawkins (47:34):
You had the marker and I didn’t have it. Because I was like, this one’s very fruity. Why did we do this one first?
Michelle Lester (47:39):
I was wondering why you were saying yes. So if you flip them, that one definitely was in the right space being wine number two. And it’s thinner. It’s more acidic. It was $10. It would fit the bill if you’re looking for something inexpensive. To me that’s a two and a half to three. I probably wouldn’t revisit the bottle. I don’t even know that I would finish the glass.
Sandy Dawkins (47:58):
It makes more sense because that’s what I’m thinking. And that’s why when I was trying it, I was like, I just cannot imagine this. I’m going two.
Michelle Lester (48:07):
Okay. Yeah. Okay. All right, Natalie.
Natalie MacLean (48:10):
Alright.
Sandy Dawkins (48:12):
Okay. Yeah, Natalie, go ahead.
Natalie MacLean (48:14):
Okay, sure. So I really do love this wine. I mean, I picked it. I asked that we could talk about Pinot because this is one of my favorite wines, so it’s already a shoe in. So I’m 4.5 corks out of five. And so that means I wouldn’t buy one bottle or a case. I would buy six, but I’d probably keep buying sixes.
Michelle Lester (48:34):
Might as well be a.
Natalie MacLean (48:35):
Yeah, I do buy this wine. I think it’s terrific value. And for your listeners who may not have access to this particular wine, because it’s from Niagara, Ontario, I do want to say Niagara, Ontario is a beautiful place to visit. So if you do come up and visit us, go to Thirty Bench. It’s a cute little winery, beautiful, out looking the lake, and on this high rise of land. Really worth visiting. So if you can’t buy it, come and see us. Yes.
Michelle Lester (49:04):
Getting to the Finger Lake area and then the Canadian wine region is on my wine bucket list. Which might be more accessible than some. The other thing that I don’t know, Natalie, if you noted about us, is the wines that we try on wines to find are wines we’ve never had before. So they’re always brand new for you to us. And that was the premise for starting the show was we’re going to taste two wines we’ve never had to get that exposure to the wine and then document it as we go.
Natalie MacLean (49:32):
Well, that’s very honest too. That’s very good
Sandy Dawkins (49:34):
Experience
Natalie MacLean (49:35):
To do that. I brought a carpet bagger. I just brought my favourite wines like, oh, I just love this. Give me an excuse to open it.
Michelle Lester (49:41):
That’s good for our listeners though, to be exposed to one that is a slam hit, so that’s great. All right. So Sandy, terrific wine number two. That was,
Sandy Dawkins (49:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So the next one, wine number two I will give that a three. I liked it better because it was fruitier, and I think that it. I don’t think that one will give me a headache. I’m a little worried about the first one giving me a headache.
Michelle Lester (50:04):
Wine number two for me had more balance. It had less of the just it then an acid. It still, again, Pinot gets like a negative from me just right off out the gate. So it has to be a really great Pinot for me to love it. And for me, this isn’t a great Pinot, so I’m going to go two and a half, three. Yeah. I don’t know that I would revisit again the bottle. But you would, so that’s good.
Sandy Dawkins (50:30):
Yeah. Okay. Well, then we were trying for Trader Joe’s.
Natalie MacLean (50:36):
Yes, absolutely. And it’s that discovery and the value, and at least you’re not at the kitchen sink, so you’ve moved away from the sink. At least they survived.
Michelle Lester (50:46):
There you go. And that’d be great to cook with.
Natalie MacLean (50:49):
There’s always a use.
Sandy Dawkins (50:50):
Well, Natalie, before you go tell our listeners where they can follow you, all that good stuff, where they can find you.
Natalie MacLean (50:58):
Sure. So it’s my website, NatalieMaclean.com is the best place to follow me or find me because all my social media is there. Oh, and if you’re wondering how to spell that, you don’t have to remember. If you just Google Natalie and wine. I’m right at the top. I don’t think there are a lot of other Natalie’s who is into wine as I am. But anyway, so it’s Natalie MacLean. The free class is at NatalieMacLean.com/class. And of course, everyone who’s listening now can find my podcast either by searching on my name or Unreserved Wine Talk. But NatalieMacLean.com. I’ll get you there.
Sandy Dawkins (51:35):
Excellent. Thank you so much for joining us.
Natalie MacLean (51:38):
Oh, thank you, Sandy and Michelle, this was terrific. I love chatting with both of you.
Michelle Lester (51:42):
All right, thank you. And for our listeners, we hope that you enjoyed this episode. We hope you do check Natalie out. We hope that if you did like this episode, you would share it with a friend or family member that also loves wine, and we hope you’ll join us next time on Wines to
Sandy Dawkins (51:55):
Find.
Natalie MacLean (52:02):
Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoy my chat with Sandy and Michelle. In the show notes, you’ll find my email contact, the full transcript of my conversation with Sandy and Michelle, links to their website and podcast, and where you can find the livestream video version of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube Live every Wednesday at 7:00 PM. You’ll also find the link to my Ultimate Free Guide to wine and food pairing. That’s all in the show notes at NatalieMacLean.com/225.
Email me if you have a sip, tip, question or would like to be an early reader of my new memoir at NatalieMacLean.com
If you missed episode 98, go back and take a listen. I interview Sandy and Michelle about horizontal and vertical wine tastings, wine temperatures, and tasting tricks. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.
Natalie MacLean
I love your approach picking maybe one grape, but it’s grown in different countries or perhaps go with one region. It’s that side by side comparison that is so illustrative of the differences between wines.
Sandy Dawkins (53:13):
That really has opened up our eyes doing verticals and horizontal tastings.
Natalie MacLean (53:19):
Yes, and we mean the wines not the people when we say horizontal and vertical. So all right, horizontal is like Shiraz from different wineries or different regions, but vertical would be Shiraz from one winery. But going back to older vintages.
Michelle Lester (53:34):
We actually did a vertical tasting of Pinot Noir from a specific producer and tasted four different wines. It is interesting to see how the grapes grown in the same location with the same winemaker. Everything’s the same, still turn out different. It’s very eye-opening when you taste some side by side like that.
Natalie MacLean (53:57):
If you like this episode, please tell one friend about it this week, especially someone who’d be interested in the wines tips and stories we shared you won’t want to miss. Next week when I chat with Tonya Pitts, the wine director at One Market restaurant in San Francisco. Wine Enthusiast Magazine named her Sommelier of the Year. She was also recently inducted into the Hall of Femmes, awarded membership in Les Dames D’Escouffier, and added to the Advisory Board of Women in Wine’s Leadership Symposium, and has become an integral contributor to the Hue Society, an organization focused on the increasing representation of black, brown, indigenous, and people of colour in the wine industry.
Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a heartbreakingly beautiful Pinot noir.
You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full-bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at NatalieMaclean.com/subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.
