Ontario Wines, the Women Behind Them and at the Forefront with Jennifer Wilhelm

Natalie MacLean
Jun19th
Click on the arrow above to listen to this episode.


You can listen to the Unreserved Wine Talk Podcast on every podcast platform and app, including Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Android, Amazon and Pandora.

You can also subscribe for free so that you don't miss an episode. Click a button below to listen:

Introduction

What is agri-tourism and why did people begin to embrace the farming experience? Why don’t Ontarians drink as much of our own wine as other provinces or countries? How did one woman lead the charge for biodynamic and organic wines in Canada?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with author Jennifer Wilhelm.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Three of you will win a copy of Jennifer Wilhelm’s terrific new book Sharing a Glass: Inspirational Memoirs & Memories of the Women Who Shaped Ontario’s Grape & Wine Industry.

 

How to Win

To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.

It takes less than 30 seconds: On your phone, scroll to the bottom here, where the reviews are, and click on “Tap to Rate.”

After that, scroll down a tiny bit more and click on “Write a Review.” That’s it!

I’ll choose one person randomly from those who contact me.

Good luck!

 

Join me on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Live Video

Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

I want to hear from you! What’s your opinion of what we’re discussing? What takeaways or tips do you love most from this chat? What questions do you have that we didn’t answer?

Want to know when we go live?

Add this to your calendar:

 

 

 

Highlights

  • What was it like for Debbie Zimmerman campaigning door-to-door in the 70s?
  • What did Debbie Zimmerman learn from Canadian politician and activist Nellie McClung?
  • How did Debbie Zimmerman’s political and journalism careers help her negotiate between Ontario grape growers and wineries?
  • How has Ann Sperling led the charge for biodynamic and organic wines in Canada?
  • Why don’t Ontarians drink as much of their own wine as other provinces?
  • What were Barbara Leslie’s contributions to the Ontario wine industry?
  • What is agritourism and how did Nicolette Novak get people from the city to embrace it?
  • How did Madame Andrée Bosc highlight the value of giving people context for the wines they are drinking?
  • What were some of the challenges and lessons that Jennifer experienced writing her book during the pandemic?
  • What does Jennifer love about the stories behind the Maenad Wine Company and Liebling Wines?

 

Key Takeaways

  • What is agri-tourism and why did people begin to embrace the farming experience?
    Jennifer mentions Nicolette Novak as a pioneer in agri-tourism, drawing people to the Niagara region for a holistic wine and food experience. This meant getting them out into the orchards and vineyards to taste produce still warm from the sun. She also drew people from Toronto to embrace the experience and the bounty of the region.
  • Why don’t Ontarians drink as much of our own wine as other provinces or countries?
    Jennifer notes that it’s a multifaceted discussion. As Ontario residents, we must see the value in purchasing our own wines. As consumers, we need to see the value in supporting our own products, small businesses, growers and farmers.
  • How did one woman lead the charge for biodynamic and organic wines in Canada?
    Ann Sperling, Jennifer observes, is Canada’s pioneer in this area. Ann grew up on an organic farm in BC, and remembered the vibrant vineyard life of insects, butterflies, birds, flowers and fauna. After she worked in places that were sterile, she knew she wanted to bring a diverse ecosystem to everything she made, especially since it contributed to the health and taste of premium grapes and wine. She also saw the impact not only on the vineyards, but also on communities around those vineyards.

 

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips

pic

As Ontario residents and consumers, we must see the value in purchasing our own products. - Jennifer Wilhelm Jennifer Wilhelm Click to tweet

pic

What I love most about Niagara is the people. I love the passion and the dedication. - Jennifer Wilhelm Jennifer Wilhelm Click to tweet

pic

You can still have beautiful, crisp, clean fruit expression with wild ferment and with low intervention. - Jennifer Wilhelm Jennifer Wilhelm Click to tweet

pic

We have the opportunity each day to impact others either positively or negatively, and I hope everybody chooses positively. - Jennifer Wilhelm Jennifer Wilhelm Click to tweet

 

About Jennifer Wilhelm

Jennifer Wilhelm has dedicated her career to Ontario’s hospitality industry. She is a certified Sommelier, and holds credentials from WSET, Prud’homme, Hospitality Management, and Human Resources with a focus on training and development. She taught at Niagara College for 17 years and was named 2010 Ontario Wine Educator through the VQA Promoters Awards. She received a Lieutenant Governor’s Community Volunteer Award for her contributions to the Ontario wine industry.

She is the author of Sharing a Glass: Inspirational Memoirs & Memories of the Women Who Shaped Ontario’s Grape & Wine Industry. The book is the first in Canada to comprehensively chronicle the significant contributions made by women in the grape and wine industry and discusses the challenges they faced and overcame. Jennifer wanted to celebrate these exceptional women and their legacy of mentorship, ensuring that their valuable insights and wisdom continue to inspire generations of people searching for strong, ethical, role models.

 

Resources

 

Tag Me on Social

Tag me on social media if you enjoyed the episode:

 

Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:00:00) – You can still have beautiful, crisp, clean fruit expression with wild ferment and with low intervention. And Yvonne is a trailblazer in showing that here. So the thing about Chardonnay that’s so important for a lot of people is that combination of fruit but also the richness that we get as a wine making influence. So that is here. It’s very integrated. One does not overpower the other. So it’s a lovely balance of bright fruit, you know, peach and nectarine and spice and this beautiful, subtle hazelnut that comes through from the lees contact and the French oak there. So yeah, if you’re looking for a Chardonnay that celebrates the land and women in small batch winemakers, that’s it.

Natalie MacLean (00:00:58) – Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host Natalie MacLean. And each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Welcome to episode 290. What is agritourism and why did people begin to embrace the farming experience? Why don’t Ontarians drink as much of our own wine as other provinces or even other countries? And how did one woman lead the charge for biodynamic and organic wines in Canada? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in Part Two of our chat with Jennifer Wilhelm, author of Sharing a Glass: Inspirational Memoirs and Memories of the Women Who Shaped Ontario’s Grape and Wine Industry. You don’t need to have listened to Part One from last week first, but if you missed it go back and listen after you finish this one. Three of you are going to win a copy of Jennifer’s terrific new book, Sharing a Glass. All you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’d like to win a copy of the book. I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me.

So let’s announce the most recent winners of book prizes. First up, the three people who want a copy of Marc Millen’s wonderful Italy in a Wine Glass are. Drumroll. Ruth from Niagara on the Lake and Anan New York City and Robert  from South Carolina. Congratulations. We also have three winners of Bianca Booker book, Get the picture. Natalie from New Hampshire, Auger from Sweden, and John from Belmont, Pennsylvania. Congratulations to you as well. If you haven’t won a book or bottle yet, now’s your chance and keep listening as my goal is to offer lots more books and other prizes with every episode.

Now, since this episode is airing a week and a half or so before Canada Day, I’d like to share with you an editorial piece that I’ve written for the Postmedia newspapers across the country. Cheers to Canada. From coast to coast, more than 700 wineries across this country offer us a taste of home. Why, then, do wines made from 100% Canadian grapes represent less than 15% of what we drink? When I travel to Bordeaux or Tuscany, I’m hard pressed to find wines outside the region on a restaurant list or in liquor stores. Is it the quality or cost of our wines? I don’t think so. I believe we’re not aware of just how much Canadian wine has changed in the past five years, let alone the past 150 years that we’ve been making it. There are also some holdover prejudices that are as dated as lava lamps and long lapels. And then there are the ridiculous inter-provincial regulatory barriers that make it more difficult to ship a wine from B.C. to Ontario than it is to ship a handgun.

So here are seven reasons and seven wines to celebrate with wine that reflects the richness of our land. Number one, taste. The other six reasons don’t matter unless the wines taste great and many, many Canadian wines do. They have the international competition medals and scores to prove it. Canadian wines suffer what I call the Celine Dion – Shania Twain syndrome. They need validation abroad before they’re accepted on their home turf. Well, they’ve been there, done that. Here’s the first wine I recommend. The Henry of Pelham Cuvée Catherine Sparkling Brut from Niagara, Ontario, is made using the traditional Champagne method of the second fermentation in the bottle, as well as traditional Champagne grapes Chardonnay, Pinot noir and Pinot. It features aromas of crisp green apples and white peach. Enjoy it on its own or with some Ontario Triple Cream cheeses.

Number two, selection. Ice wine, the dessert elixir that put Canada on the global winemaking map remains our leading export, and rightly so. However, dry, still, and sparkling wines now capture my attention and tastebuds as a wine writer. We excel at making wine from classic grapes such as Chardonnay, Riesling, Pinot Noir, Cabernet Franc and Gamay. Yet most of our wines are not in government liquor stores, so visit these wineries this summer. They’re in gorgeous landscapes with lots of other activities to do, from bike rides and ballooning to spa and theatre. Canada is one of the largest countries in the world, and our geography is also more diverse, from the Rockies in the west to the Bay of Fundy in the east. Riesling from BC, Ontario, Quebec or Nova Scotia will each offer wildly different expressions in the glass. And here’s the wine to prove it. Try Tightrope Riesling from the Okanagan Valley in British Columbia. This is an exciting, edgy wine with lime zest notes and a racy acidity that’s perfect for Pacific Coast salmon.

Number three, versatility. Canada’s cool climate produces grapes that aren’t loaded with sugar when they’re ripe, so they don’t ferment into high levels of alcohol. Low alcohol wines are the most versatile with food since they don’t overwhelm it with heat or sugar and yet still have lots of flavour. This is yet another reason to vacation in wine country and enjoy the pairing menus wineries offer in their restaurants. Here’s the wine to prove it. The Glooscap First Nation and Benjamin Bridge Rosé from Annapolis Valley in Nova Scotia. This is a collaboration between the Glooscap First Nation people and the Benjamin Bridge Winery. It’s fresh and fragrant. The grapes are grown on the traditional Mi’kmaq land. Pair it with a feast of steamed Atlantic lobster in melting butter.

Number four, value. If you think Canadian wines are expensive, you’re doing it wrong. Comparing our wines to those from warm climates that don’t have to battle frost, mildew, and other costly threats is kind of like comparing ballet to football. Our wines will never be the hulking defensive linebackers of the wine world, but they do have the effortless grace to pirouette with pleasure on your palate. When I compare our Pinot Noir and Chardonnay to those of Burgundy, France, they’re often a third of the price. Our sparkling wines are a quarter of the cost of entry level Champagne. Yes, they taste different because they come from different places, but the quality is on the same parallel. Here’s the wine to prove it. Try the Westcott Estate Pinot Noir from Niagara. It’s smooth and medium bodied and bursting with ripe cherry aromas. Drink it with grilled game birds or chicken.

Number five, the economy. Wine is the highest value added agricultural product we produce in this country. Every bottle of 100% Canadian wine contributes $80 to our economy, versus just $18 for an imported wine, injecting more than $11.6 billion into our economy every year. And here’s the wine Coteau Rougemont La Cote Chardonnay from Quebec is full bodied with luscious aromas of golden apples. Yet it will also cut through the glorious richness of poutine.

Number six, jobs, jobs, jobs. The wine industry creates 45,000 jobs, both directly and indirectly through tourism, restaurants, hotels and manufacturing. These jobs are often in rural areas where it’s hard to find work, and they’re on family owned grape farms, most of which have fewer than 20 employees. And here’s the wine to back it up. The Rossignol Winery Maple wine from P.E.I. has a smoky, sweet, woodsy aroma to complement a cinnamon dusted Beavertail. And I mean the pastry, not the critter.

And finally, number seven, the environment. Drinking local wines means not shipping wine in weighty bottles thousands of miles. Many Canadian wineries farm organically and /or sustainably. Voting with your dollars encourages these practices and the wine. Summerhill Pyramid Winery, Alive White from Summerhill, BC, is not only organic, but it’s also vegan friendly. It would be terrific as an aperitif or with field greens. There’s definitely room on our table for international wines, but we also have an unexplored country beneath our feet and in our glass. Cheers.

Speaking of Canadian bottles and books, have you read Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Defamation, and Drinking Too Much? If yes, well then have you bought a copy for a friend or family member? Please consider doing that. If you’d like to support this podcast that I do for you on a volunteer basis to ensure it continues. You can order it for yourself or for someone else from any online book retailer. Now, no matter where you live, it usually arrives in a day or two. And of course, the e-book is instant. It’s a fast read and every little bit helps spread the message in this book of hope, justice, and resilience. You can send a copy directly to a friend or family member via the online retailers, and make their day when a gift arrives in the mail. Yay! Rather than an overdue electric bill. Boo!

I’ll put a link in the show notes to all retailers at NatalieMacLean.com/290. I also offer a free companion guide that has book club and wine group discussion questions that can also spark a conversation between two friends or a partner and spouse.  It asks questions such as how you feel about your own relationship with wine, marketing tactics toward women and men, and whether social media is still a good place to connect with others. The guide has wine recommendations, pairings, and tips for organizing your own informal wine tasting. You can get that at WineWitchOnFire.com

If you’ve read the book or are reading it, I’d love to hear from you. If your book club or wine group plans to read it, let me know if you’d like me to join you via Zoom. Email me at [email protected]. Okey dokey, on with the show.

Natalie MacLean (00:13:00) -Debbie Zimmerman, who started as a journalist in the region, then ran for council when she was just 22 years old. She has a bit of a funny story. When she was out campaigning, going door to door to meet constituents, maybe could share that that’s in the book as well.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:13:08) – It is in the book, yeah. So, Debbie – if you’re thinking about the 70s again and you’re thinking about women in politics, Debbie had to get so many signatures in order to move forward in her campaign. And so she had to knock on doors and she did so. And when you knock on doors, you’re usually doing that in the evenings. And so, she would be out there knocking on doors and campaigning and getting signatures. And more often than not, the head of the household, the man, would answer the door and in many cases would say to her, what are you doing? And why aren’t you home cooking dinner for your husband and your family?

Natalie MacLean – laughter

Jennifer Wilhelm – And, Debbie said, I just wasn’t deterred. I refused to let that derail me. And she said, and you know what? Oftentimes standing behind him would be a woman in the background, maybe with a child or drying her hands on a dish towel or making dinner or what have you. And that woman would be in the background going, yes.

Natalie MacLean (00:14:14) – With two thumbs up. Yes. (laughter)

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:14:16) – Exactly. And Debbie said, I just pulled strength from that. And I wasn’t doing this just for me. I was doing it for every woman.

Natalie MacLean (00:14:25) – Wow. And you know, you even note in the book, her mother sounds like a strong woman. It was something to the effect, they debate politics around the kitchen or the dining room table. There were eight kids and her father wasn’t listening to her mother or disagreed. Her mother would say something like, I don’t care if you don’t agree with me. My vote cancels out yours anyway. That’s great. What do you think she learned from growing up in a family of eight children?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:14:51) – Yeah. You know, I led her chapter with that as well because one of the reasons is that each of these women have different childhoods, but it’s so important for us as the reader to be able to see ourselves in each of these women. And whether it’s a noisy family of multiple children or a situation with some of the other women where they were individual children or had smaller families, but to be one of so many children and to be right in the middle as Debbie Zimmerman was, she had to learn to be the observer. So she watched the older ones and she watched the younger ones. And, if she was called on to take sides, she had to do so very strategically and consider all of the consequences and consider the best outcomes for everyone because there are ripple effects in sibling disputes in a household.

Natalie MacLean (00:15:51) – Absolutely. Diplomacy at eight years old.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:15:53) – That’s right. Yes. A brilliant woman.

Natalie MacLean (00:15:57) – Yeah, absolutely. What do you think she learned from Nellie McClung, the Canadian politician who advocated to give Canadian women the right to vote in 1914?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:16:07) – Right. So, Nellie McClung, in the definition of persons said, why shouldn’t women be included in the definition of persons? Debbie Zimmerman read that and embodied that and said, why shouldn’t they? Why not? Why not me? Why not her? And, you know, it didn’t matter what no was thrown at Debbie Zimmerman that something couldn’t be done or you’re not the person to do it. She straightened her shoulders and she looked them in the eye, and she said, why not?

Natalie MacLean (00:16:46) – That’s great. I often look back, even on my own life, and think it was some of the nos that pushed me harder than had I been faintly encouraged. It’s almost like, I don’t know if it’s just bull headedness on my nature, not Debbie’s that you just want to push past those nos and prove them wrong. Like, yeah, we can do it.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:17:06) – Yes we can.

Natalie MacLean (00:17:07) – Now, Debbie became the head of the Grape Growers Ontario. How did her political and journalism careers help her negotiate between grape growers and wineries? And what sort of negotiations would there have been like? What would be an example of what she would have to diplomatically negotiate?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:17:25) – Oh, that’s a tough question for me. I would think that in a lot of cases things that Debbie had to negotiate would have been things that there were multiple sides, multiple stakeholders. Again, you know, drawing on her ability to see the big picture and to listen. So, for Debbie, she found ways to be seen and heard in boardrooms and spaces that women weren’t traditionally seen and heard in and found a way to use her voice. So how she negotiated things really did. They were fair, they were genuine, and they had the best outcome for everyone involved that she could negotiate herself.

Natalie MacLean (00:18:08) – She must have developed a lot of trust among all the parties at the table for sensitive discussions, like what prices are grapes going to be this year or whatever. I’m just guessing at the kinds of things that they would have to settle between them.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:18:21) – Yes, and that’s a major one right? There is the price points of you’ve got different boards and different stakeholders and different marketing boards, etc.. So, for Debbie, representing the farmers and the growers and also understanding the economic impact and the ripple effect of those. And, for the wineries too, and regionally, economically. So, she understood the grants that had to come in and the monies and the funding that she had to procure and secure for the Niagara region. And she did, because, again, she could look at things big picture and present all sides of a case and say, hey, look, this benefits everyone. And she earned that trust. People believed in her and believed in her intentions to best serve her community. And that’s who Debbie is.

Natalie MacLean (00:19:14) – You’ve included one of my favorite winemakers, Ann Sperling. She grew up on a family farm and vineyard in BC, helping pick the grapes as a child. How has she led the charge in Canada for biodynamic and organic wines, both in B.C. and here in Ontario?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:19:32) – So for Ann, she shares that growing up on an organic farm as a child with your siblings in the vineyards, being part of the tying and the harvesting and all of the things that are required on a farm for all the generations to participate in. She said she remembers that there were insects and there were butterflies and there were birds, and there were, you know, all kinds of things, flowers and things. And, we imagine as a child being distracted by all of those and just being outside. And it was beautiful. And then she began working in places that weren’t that. And they were sterile.

Natalie MacLean (00:20:15) – Using chemicals or whatever. Fertilizers or pesticides, fungicides.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:20:21) – That’s right. So there was an absence of all of the diversity and all of the ecosystem that had made the premium grapes and added to the character and  mitigated some of the need,  some of those beneficial parts of the ecosystem when they were removed through pesticides and all of those things. The chemicals had to step in. The other fertilizers had to step in. Whereas she sees a vineyard as a whole and she sees the ecosystem as a whole. So for her, she was moving towards more sustainability. She was moving towards the impact on the vineyards, but also the impact on communities. And, when she was at Malavoire, it was such a great fit for her because the owners of Malavoire lived on the property. They lived by the vineyards, so they did not want chemicals being sprayed. They didn’t want all of these detrimental chemicals and fertilizers and pesticides on their property, around their children and their pets and their family and loved ones.

So it was a really great fit for Ann with some support from Malavoire and from the community to work towards finding better solutions and moving some of the regulations and some of what was possible to bring in to Canada as a replacement, if you will. Again, I don’t have an expertise on there for sure. But when you read about the things that like there weren’t substitutions that were safe. And so for Ann working together and leading the charge to find those and to make them available was so impactful, not just for Niagara and Ontario and Canada, coast to coast in Canada, but then she goes on to do that and revitalize a vineyard in Mendoza as well.

Natalie MacLean (00:22:19) – Right. And she and her husband, Peter Gamble, they’ve consulted out in Nova Scotia. I think it’s Blomidon Winery and elsewhere. And now they’ve got two new enterprises. I think in Ontario there were Sperling Vineyards, which I think has since been sold. But her influence is far and wide and profound when it comes to the environment, too.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:22:38) – Yes, absolutely.

Natalie MacLean (00:22:41) – Yeah. I just want to mention that Ann also established the first appellation in Canada for orange wines, and it was only the second one in the world after South Africa. And these are made like white wines, except they get more skin contact and take on various shades of amber and orange. And now many other wineries in Ontario and across the country and across the world, around the world, make orange wines. So that’s another one of her contributions. And she makes an observation, which I’ll just throw out there. I don’t think either of us have the answer, but I think it’s an interesting observation she makes. That Ontarians don’t drink as much Ontario wine as B.C. and Nova Scotia residents do of the wines made in their respective provinces. I don’t know, I’m just hypothesizing if it’s because it’s such a bigger market here, but I don’t buy that. I’m not sure what it is, but I think perhaps we just need more confidence in our own wines here as purchasers.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:23:35) – Yeah, we just had the Ontario Craft Winery conference last week, and that was one of the biggest discussions. And it continues to be a very big discussion here. Why aren’t Ontarians drinking more Ontario wine? Why aren’t they choosing more Ontario wine? Why aren’t government bodies pushing forward for that? And, it’s a multifaceted and political discussion. But at the end of the day, as an Ontario resident, as an Ontario consumer, we must see the value in purchasing our own product. We must see the value in promoting our own products. We must see the value in promoting and supporting our small businesses and our growers and farmers. I mean, we understand this. Farmers feed cities, we know all of these things. But, you know, as an Ontario resident, when you walk in to the LCBO or the grocery store or anywhere, choose Ontario.

Natalie MacLean (00:24:33) – For so many reasons, as you say, like these wineries, 90% of them are small family farms, fewer than 20 employees, even fewer often than that. And when you buy local, you’re just doing so much to support this business. But also you’re not shipping wines from everywhere around the world. You know, I’m not saying don’t buy anything else because the beauty of wine is in its diversity, but we are supporting so much more locally.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:24:58) – You know, we would like to see some challenge for sure go out in saying, if you buy this many bottles of wine a month, make sure that this many are from Ontario. And here’s the impact. So, there’s a lot of us within the industry that are working towards some impactful marketing towards that. That there’s been a lot of that understanding with farmers and buying from fruit stands and things like that. If every family redirected $10 a month of their spending towards buying local, here’s the impact on farmers. Well, the same can be true for Ontario wines. These are farmers. These are grape growers. These are our businesses. These are our brothers and sisters and cousins and families and friends and colleagues. And we need to support them.

Natalie MacLean (00:25:44) – Absolutely. And there have been lots of studies, like for every bottle of Ontario wine or Canadian wine, it injects $80 to $90 into the economy, the local economy, versus just $18 for a foreign import. It might be even lower than that. The numbers were staggering in terms of the differences, you know, and just the spin off jobs, the tourism, the trade, the restaurants, manufacturing, even when it comes to bottles and so on.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:26:11) – I think it’s an education in a lot of cases, and we need to work harder at that as an industry, and we need our governing bodies to work harder in that level of education for the consumers to understand the impact…

Natalie MacLean (oo:26) – Absolutely.

Jennifer Wilhelm (oo:26)…  and instill a sense of pride. Sorry. First, so that when the consumers are leaving with that Ontario wine, they’re like, woo hoo! I’m an Ontario wine supporter.  I feel good about this. They walk a little taller. They’re not stuffing it in their bag. They’re like, yeah, hey, you want to see what’s in my grocery cart? What’s in my LCBO cart? It’s an Ontario wine and I’m proud of that.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:43) – I can see why you won the VQA Wine Super Promoter award. This podcast is brought to you by (laughter).

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:26) Sorry! (laughter)

Natalie MacLean (00:26)  No, no. That’s okay. Absolutely. I’m just as proud to drink Ontario and Canadian wine. Not just to be patriotic. The wines are great. The quality speaks for itself. So all right, we’re preaching to the converted here. We’re singing from the same choir sheet. Next up is Barbara Leslie who passed away in 2023. What contribution did she make to the Ontario wine industry?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:27:15) – You know, Yvonne Irving, in her tribute, called Barb quietly powerful. And Barb, oh gosh, not only was she quietly powerful, but she was powerfully empowering. So Barb poured into people. She taught and was the advisor at Niagara College. So, she was very instrumental in empowering students, in educating students, in helping them find their place in the industry, building up their self-efficacy. But she had come from Montreal, and she worked with the Opinion Society. So that had several layers of impact. So some of the things that Barb did was she was the first female publisher of a Canadian wine magazine  and that was Wine Tidings at the time. So what a lot of people don’t realize is when you think about the big names like Tony Asper and Konrad Ejbich and Thomas Bachelder, Barbara Leslie mentored them. She edited their work. I would encourage everyone to read Thomas Bachelder’s tribute to Barbara Leslie in her chapter because she was quietly powerful and she wanted to. Celebrate other people. But when she came from the Opimian.

Natalie MacLean (00:28:38) – Which is a wine club in Canada, just for those who may not be familiar with. They ship wine to you every month.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:28:44) – Yeah, and also in the early years of Opimian, members could join wine immersive trips around the world. And Barbara organized and led those trips. She spoke multiple languages so she could take you to France. And she did, and she could take you to Italy. And she did. And she was a connector. So she learned early on from a tour experience what the guests, what the visitors wanted. And she also learned about what the wineries, the hosting wineries needed to. So she was able to find those connections and to create very meaningful experiences and memorable experiences. And she understood the value of those connections and relationships. Long after the trip was over and the tour was over, the visit to the winery and the wine region, those people went back and talked about their experiences, and they met the winemaker, and they walked through these vineyards and they tasted this wine, and they went on to share those stories. And now they were invested in those places. So that was so important. And Barbara understood that.

So when she came here and she started working behind the scenes to bring tours to Niagara and to collaborate with other educational institutions across Ontario and Canada. And she brought them here and she said, hey, we need to get educators of wine from other provinces in Canada here so that when they’re teaching in their classrooms about Niagara and Ontario, they can say. And when we went there and we met this winemaker and we walked through the vineyards and yes we held that soil and we saw the slopes and we understand. So Barbara was brilliant.

Natalie MacLean (00:30:36) – Sounds significant. Really. I’m sorry. I don’t think I ever met her before she passed away. All right. We’re going to keep motoring on here. Nicolette Novak pioneered agri-tourism. What is that? How did she do it?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:30:51) – So, agri-tourism, at a time when we’re talking about farming wasn’t cool to a lot of people. It wasn’t glamorous, it was dirty, it was hard work. And the terms like farmer’s hands were derogatory. So we just talked again about the necessity of farming and the importance of farmers and how they feed cities and provide all of the things.

Nicolette was really. She had traveled the world and she understood that there was an appreciation and a respect for the way food was grown and the way food was savoured and the way meals were shared and talked about the ingredients and how things were prepared. And she wanted to bring that back here to her family farm. So her family farm in Beamsville, which was the good earth. So when Nicolette traveled and she came back to what she said was just this little slice of heaven here in Niagara, she wanted other people to experience this. And this was pre-Food Network days, so it wasn’t cool. A lot of people didn’t know all of these things. When we think about what gourmet was or quality, it usually was imported. For a lot of people that meant French or Italian. It meant imported. And she really worked hard to turn that around and to get people to embrace literally the fruits of the labours here and to get out into the orchards and the vineyards and to taste produce that was still warm from the sun and see those differences.

So agritourism, she got people from the city to come here and embrace that experience and to say, wow, like, hey, before we leave, we’re picking up peaches from Niagara because they’re the best peaches around, and we’re picking up cherries from Cherry Lane in Beamsville. And so she got people embracing the gifts of our region.

Natalie MacLean (00:32:57) – Yeah. And she really had a passion for teaching people the deep connection between the food and the land, as you note in the book. And she had the cooking school as well, the Good Earth cooking school. So it’s pretty remarkable. She did note, though, in your book, everyone else’s playtime is her work time, so it does take a toll. But we’ve talked about that, too. In the wine industry, even going back to Debbie Pratt, in terms of the hours, there can be a price to pay, but people still willingly do it. Finally, you have the late Madame Andrée. Is it Andrée Bosc who sounds like a real character, a real firm matriarch of Chateau de Charmes. Of course she has, as I mentioned just since, passed away. In a way, she reminds me a little bit the way you describe her. Like Madame Veuve Clicquot passed down Veuve Clicquot, the Champagne fame. So you didn’t get to interview her. She had a remarkable contribution. Chateau de Charmes. And her family still runs this. But what would you have asked her had you been able to interview her?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:34:00) – I asked all of the women the same questions. I was mining for wisdom and insights. And Madame, again, I wanted to know her motivation. I wanted to know what kept her going because Madame she elevated hospitality here. She understood innately. And part of that was being European, but part of it was just who she was. But she understood innately that people were coming to taste the amazing wine made by her talented husband, Paul Bosc Senior. But for Madame, she knew that they needed context for these wines. So she was the experience. It wasn’t just about the wine. Madame created the experience and she said to you smell this and taste this, and you must use this when you’re making your roast or when you’re steaming your muscles and then, you know, have a glass for you and a glass for your guests and a glass for the pot.

Natalie MacLean (00:35:06) – And sit up straight and get your elbows off the table (laughter).

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:35:09) – And you’ll need two more bottles because you know everyone’s going to love this so much. And the relationship of the family that people saw her husband making the wine. But it was Madame who said, coming here to Canada. And they settled in Montreal because it made sense. French was their first language. She was pregnant, she had a toddler, and she still said, we’re going to Ontario, we’re going to Niagara. This is our dream. We’re going to do it. And like, I don’t know many people who would have traveled continents with a toddler and being pregnant again and saying, this is what we need to do.  This is our dream. We don’t even speak fluent English. But yes, let’s do it.

I mean, if she hadn’t said that, if you had known Madame and Madame said no, you listen. But Madame said yes. And so they came to Ontario because primarily she said they were.

Natalie MacLean (00:36:14) – Remarkable. And Chateau de Charmes is a wonderful winery to visit. Great tasting room and obviously excellent wines. Have you discovered anything since you wrote the book that you’d add to a new edition?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:36:24) – That’s a great question. Within this book, we covered women from various sectors that have been required to build this industry. There’s lots of collaboration needed in the next book. I don’t want to say too much about the next book because the next book is underway.

Natalie MacLean (00:36:39) – Oh how exciting.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:36:41) – And we are working on that because, you know, we ended this book in the mid ’90s and there have been so many leaders and mentors coming forward, things that I discovered that I’d like to go forward. I think the tributes were powerful. What would I do differently? I’m not sure. I have to tell you. I’m really happy with this book. I’m happy with the impact that it’s had, so I would have to think about what I would do differently. And I’m sure that as the readers and hopefully  listeners are reading and listening, they’re going to come forward and say, hey, here’s some of those things, and it’s why we get an editor, because I couldn’t change the book. I was too close to the book. I couldn’t change the words. I couldn’t shear it down. I couldn’t do any of those things.

So even now what I do differently, I don’t know, maybe have a beta reader like how you did with yours. I think is brilliant, because then you get that input and you have an opportunity to do that before the book is finished.

Natalie MacLean (00:37:32) – Yeah. Very valuable. But yeah,  it’s very exciting a new edition. What was the most difficult part of writing the book or any personal challenges you faced? Anything you want to mention?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:37:44) – Yeah, I mean, the book started in February 2019 and the world was different and my life was different and everybody’s life was different in this book.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:37:54) – And so challenges were getting people to connect through the pandemic, to move past the fear and anxiety that everybody had. You know, a lot of people said, oh the pandemic must have been a great time to write a book. Well, not a collaborative book it wasn’t. So, connecting with people and to get the stories and to get those things was tricky. Things that I learned, though, are that in the dark times that we had through the pandemic and that each of these women had and that I had personally through those times. It’s these stories of strength and leadership that keep us going. So I drew so much personal strength and inspiration to keep putting one foot in front of another while writing these. And I think  for the tribute writers to it felt good to share with people and their mentors in these women the impact that they had had on them. So it really was a source of light and joy and inspiration and strength.

Natalie MacLean (00:38:58) – Well, so just before you’ve got two lines that I still want to hear about today’s therapy. But Niagara for a moment, you’re there. And of course, all of these women have contributed to building. You quote Lewis Carroll about Niagara. I love this quote. There is a place like no place on earth, a land full of wonder, mystery and danger. Some say to survive it you need to be as mad as a hatter, which luckily I am. What is it about Niagara that you love most? And can you share a few tips for those planning to visit Niagara?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:39:32) – That is easy. What I love most about Niagara is the people. I love the passion and the dedication. I love the sense of community. I don’t know if that exists – I hope it exists elsewhere in the world, but I know here in Niagara that if you are part of our grape and wine or tourism and hospitality industry, you are part of a family. You have a cheering squad, you have a support system, and it is like no other place on earth. And it is really special here in Niagara.

Natalie MacLean (00:39) – I love that.

Jennifer Wilhelm (oo:39) – My suggestion get to know the people. Get to know the people when you come, read the stories, do your research and ask when you come. What’s the stories behind here? Are those people here? Could we meet them.

Natalie MacLean (00:40:17) – Right when you walk into a tasting room. Sure taste the wines, but ask about the people behind the bottle as well.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:40:24) – Yeah, and ask the servers, too. What’s your connection? Why do you love working here? Because they have so much insight to share and hopefully they’re really proud.

Natalie MacLean (00:40:36) – Awesome. All right. Which two wines do you have there, Jennifer.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:40:39) – Yeah okay. So I’m excited about both of these wines. All right I’m going to hold up both bottles at the same time.

Natalie MacLean (00:40:45) – And we’ll put a  link in the show notes to these wines so that people can find them.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:40:49) – Okay. So in celebrating women and in celebrating the next generation, I wanted to pour two wines here that do that. So we’ve got Maenad and we have Liebling. So Maenad is made in both of these women are involved in the book as well. So Yvonne Irving is the winemaker for Maenad and the founder. And, Maenads were the female followers of Dionysus and known for their wild behaviour.

Natalie MacLean (00:41) – I love them already.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:41:18) – Nonconformists. Exactly. They defied the expected role of women, and they’re creative. So with this, the tagline is Wines and Women Untamed. And she celebrates diversity. So you’re having a look at this label. There’s diversity, there’s collaboration, there’s creativity, and playfulness. This is a brand that you want to get to know. This is the Chardonnay. It is absolutely beautiful. Before I jump into the Chardonnay, just so I make sure that I am talking about Liebling. So Liebling, this is a brand that is also new. So when we think about the next generation. So Matthias Oppenlaender who wrote the tribute in the book as well, his two daughters, Alison and Jessica, are behind this brand. Liebling means darling in German. And so this particular brand is celebrating Niagara, is celebrating the family farm, and the vineyards. And each of the wines has a little bit of a story behind it. So this particular wine is Alison’s inspiration. And in the vineyard here, Alison is the bookworm. So if you follow Alison, she’s a great educator, a bookworm, a reader. She just posted a beautiful review of my wine. I already knew I wanted to pour Liebling, and then I saw this review and I just thought, oh my goodness, this the sense of collaboration again and celebration of one another is amazing.

Natalie MacLean (00:42:50) – But she posted a review of your book?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:42:52) – She did? Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:42:54) – Oh that’s great. Yeah. You said my wine. So I just wanted to make sure. Do you have a winery that we don’t know about, Jennifer. (laughter) Okay. Okay, cool.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:43:02) – Here’s Alison here in the vineyard with her book.

Natalie MacLean (00:43:06) – Excellent. I love that.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:43:07) – The things that I love about the Gamay that we’re talking about that is that as we’re going into the summer months – I love Gamay all all year long –  but going into the summer months, it’s great because it’s chillable.

Natalie MacLean (00:43:18) – Yes. Absolutely.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:43:20) – So it’s a great wine to carry us forward.

Natalie MacLean (00:43:24) – Just give us a brief tasting note on each one. You’ve got the Chardonnay, Maenad. So what do you get from that?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:43:30) – Yeah. So this is a wild ferment. All of Yvonne’s are wild ferment. Going with the wild women and untamed wild ferment, wild yeast, all of those things also bottled, unfiltered. So she has a low intervention approach to her wine making so to preserve as much character. This is from the Grimsby Hillside vineyard. So as she’s going through, she’s looking to find express expression of the terroir, which is important to her. So, the great thing about this is that you can still have beautiful, crisp, clean fruit expression with wild ferment and with low intervention. And Yvonne is a trailblazer in showing that here. So the thing about Chardonnay that’s so important for a lot of people is that combination of fruit, but also the richness that we get as a wine making influence. So that is here. It’s very integrated. One does not overpower the other. So it’s a lovely balance of bright fruit, you know, peach and nectarine and spice and this beautiful, subtle hazelnut that comes through from the lees contact and the French oak there. So yeah, if you’re looking for a Chardonnay that celebrates the land and women in small batch winemakers, that’s it. Yvonne Irving.

Natalie MacLean (00:44:54) – All right. And then you’ve got the Liebling.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:44:56) – And the Liebling. Yes. So again, this particular wine is full of bright berry fruit. All of the things that people think about with Gamay. It is approachable. It’s expressive. It has so much red fruit. And then the spice that lends itself naturally as primary characteristics from the grape. But this one was treated in a pretty serious way with some French oak also. So you have this added layer that elevates the fruit and adds more complexity to it. So you’re finding some spice and some vanilla and some of those baking characteristics that add interesting layers to the Gamay. And being only 12.5% again, it showcases our cool climate and it takes you into the warmer months in a wine that can be chilled down and doesn’t demand big meals. It’s easy to be enjoyed on its own or with food or without food, but with friends is the best way to enjoy either of these wines.

Natalie MacLean (00:46:05) – Absolutely. 12.5% alcohol. That’s nice and low for the summer. Those are wonderful and I cannot believe how time has flown. Oh my goodness, I had lots more. But is there anything that we haven’t covered that you’d like to mention? I’m going to ask you where we can get your book and so on, but is there anything else that you wanted to mention, Jennifer?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:46:27) – Anything else that I would like to mention? I think that this book is not exclusively for women. It’s not exclusively for people that are interested in the grape and wine industry. This book is about leadership. It’s about finding role models and being role models. It’s about celebrating one another. And it’s about as we’re finding out who we want to be in the world. And you know who we want to be. How we are is just as important. And for each of these women, they were all mentors and that they make it a point to mentor others. And I think that we each have that opportunity each day to impact others, either positively or negatively. And I hope everybody chooses positively.

Natalie MacLean (00:47:17) – Yes. And they should choose your book as an inspiration. Sharing A glass. Congratulations, Jennifer. Well done. Thank you so much. And where can we get the book?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:47:26) – So most Niagara wineries are carrying the book, which is fantastic and more and more are picking it up. It was just released last month. So it’s it’s moving quickly. Like I said, we’ve got an event at Inniskillin that’s open to everyone. Debbie Pratt will be there also, so that’ll be a great opportunity on June 2nd. There will be subsequent events at Malavoire, at Fielding, at 30th Street, at Sue-Anne Staff. So all of these wineries are carrying the book Niagara College Teaching Winery. If a winery isn’t carrying the book, please ask them to carry the book. And you know Chapters is carrying it. Indigo. Amazon. You can order directly from Friesen Press also. And yeah, it’s a great gift. Mother’s day is coming.

Natalie MacLean (00:48:13) – There you go. Perfect. That’s great. And where can we find you online, Jennifer?

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:48:19) – So we’ve just had a website constructed this week actually. So SharingAGlass.com. We’re adding to the website regularly. So there’ll be an opportunity on there. And I do want to point this out is that it’s difficult to cover all of the women. It’s difficult to cover, especially the next generation, to where there’s more and more and more women. So there’s going to be a tab on the website for this next book, and for subsequent female focused and leadership focused events, where you can nominate someone that you feel deserves recognition. And so I think I’d like the website to really work as that funnel, to gather all the good stories and all of the people that we need to know about. Yeah, so that will be there as well. So I hope people do visit the website as it’s being developed and share their own thoughts.

Natalie MacLean (00:49:15) – SharingAGlass.com. All right. Well Jennifer, we shall have to share a glass in person next time.  That would be a lot of fun. So thank you very much for sharing all of these amazing stories. Very inspirational and for writing the book. Congratulations on publishing it. It’s a remarkable achievement.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:49:35) – Thank you. It was a collaborative effort, 100%. It was a shared effort.

Natalie MacLean (00:49:40) – Very collegial of you to say yes, spoken like a true leadership woman. Leader. Woman.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:49:47) – Thank you so much for having me on here. It’s been great to have someone that I’ve looked up to and read your books all these years, and now to be here and to be talking about other amazing women with, an inspiring woman. So thank you.

Natalie MacLean (00:50:03) – Thank you Jennifer. Thank you, I appreciate that. All right. Well, we’ll say goodbye for now, but I’m looking forward to following the success of your book and to getting together in person. So I will wrap this up now and I raise my glass to you, Jennifer.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:50:17) – Thank you so much. And mine to you.

Natalie MacLean (00:50:20) – Okay. Cheers.

Jennifer Wilhelm (00:50:21) – Cheers.

Natalie MacLean (00:50:27) – Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Jennifer. Here are my takeaways. Number one ,what is agri-tourism and why do people begin to embrace the farming experience? Jennifer highlights Nicolette Novak as a pioneer in agri-tourism, drawing people to the Niagara region for a holistic wine and food experience. This meant getting them out into the orchards in the vineyards to taste produce still warm from the sun. She also drew people from the big cities like Toronto to embrace the experience and the bounty of the region.

Number two, why don’t Ontarians drink as much of our own wine as other provinces or countries do? Jennifer notes that it’s a multifaceted discussion. As Ontario residents, we must see the value in purchasing our own wines. As consumers, we need to see the value in supporting our own products small businesses, growers and farmers.

And number three, how did one woman lead the charge for biodynamic and organic wines in Canada? Ann Sperling, Jennifer observes, is Canada’s pioneer in this area and grew up on an organic farm in B.C. and remembered the vibrant vineyard life of insects, butterflies, birds, flowers and fauna. After she worked in places that were sterile, she knew she wanted to bring this diverse ecosystem to everything she made, especially since it contributed to the health and to the taste of premium grapes and wines. She also saw the impact not only on the vineyards, but also on the communities that surrounded those vineyards.

In the show notes, you’ll find the full transcript of my conversation with Jennifer, links to her website, and book the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live. You’ll also find a link to take a free online food and wine pairing class with me called the Five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at nataliemaclean.com/class. That’s all in the show notes at nataliemaclean.com/290. Email me if you have a sip, tip, question, or would like to win one of three copies of Jennifer’s terrific book, Sharing a Glass.

I’d also love to hear from you if you’ve read my book or are in the process of reading it at [email protected]. If you missed episode 162, go back and take a listen. I chat about Sherry, Rioja Cava and other Spanish wine gems with Lawrence Francis. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Lawrence Francis (00:53:06) – Sherry is one of the most complex wines out there, so tern is always going to have this amazing length and intensity. But Sherry in the right hands, you can almost just turn it up. There’s so many different colors and different flavors to paint from it. I think they’re on the right track and talking about how well it goes with food. Food is a wonderful way to hook people and to get them to want to know more about the wine.

Natalie MacLean (00:53:32) – It’s a great way into wine itself, but also categories of wine that have maybe suffered from misconceptions. Like Sherry has often been pegged as the Oxford Don University professor wine behind the books, or Granny’s wine or whatever. But it is complex. It’s nutty, it’s wonderful. It has this range of styles from sweet to dry.

You won’t want to miss next week, when we chat with Doctor Wes Zandberg from the University of British Columbia about the economic and environmental impact of wildfires in wine country, as well as what impact smoke taint has on your wine and which remedies are on the horizon.

If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell one friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about Ontario wines. It’s easy to find my podcast. Tell them to search for Natalie MacLean wine on their favorite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week, perhaps an edgy, racy Ontario Riesling or Pinot Noir?

You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at nataliemaclean.com/subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.

 

Books and Wine, Books: Wine, Boxed Wine, Food & Wine Pairing, Podcasts, Serving Wine, Taste Wine, Wine Question, Wine Style, Wine Tasting, Wine Tasting Notes, Wine Trends, Wine Writing, Women and Wine