Inventive Food & Wine Pairing and Buying Tips with Guy Bower of The Good Life Show

Introduction

What exactly makes the sense of smell so evocative? How can you play with food and wine pairing to discover new flavours? What can you do to de-risk your exploration of new wines?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m being interviewed by Guy Bower, host of The Good Life podcast.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

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Highlights

When did I discover my appreciation for wine?
What makes the senses of smell and taste so evocative?
Why do I love feeling like an enthusiastic amateur when it comes to wine?
How has the wine world changed and why am I an unwavering advocate of making it feel more accessible?
If I could only have one wine, what would it be?
Which shabby-chic food and wine pairing should you try next?
Which weird wine pairing surprised me with how good it is?
How can you play with food and wine pairing?
What can you do to de-risk your exploration of new wines?

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips

The difference between tasting and drinking is thinking. - Natalie MacLean Natalie MacLean Click to tweet

There’s a full-bodied appreciation that comes from having trained in a discipline. - Natalie MacLean Natalie MacLean Click to tweet

Oftentimes it’s not really the wine and the food, it’s who and where you are. - Guy Bower Guy Bower Click to tweet

It’s all about having fun and playing with your food and wine. - Guy Bower Guy Bower Click to tweet

About Guy Bower & The Good Life

The Good Life podcast is hosted by Guy Bower. Guy is a retired Air Force fighter pilot and recently retired Airbus A300 Captain for FedEx. Throughout his career in the military, which involved many years living and travelling in Europe, he has been a dedicated food and wine enthusiast and home chef. Associated with the radio program, Guy regularly attends major national wine events, seminars and tastings as an enthusiast, participant and judge. He has authored many articles on the enjoyment of Food, Wine and the “Good Life” – and is called on often to share his knowledge and enthusiasm with wine appreciation classes, wait-staff training, and educational tastings and seminars. Guy is a Level-1 Sommelier and teaches several wine appreciation classes at Wichita State University each semester.

The Good Life radio program began in Miami in 1988, on WKAT 1360AM. In 1990, a military move to Kansas brought The Good Life to the Midwest. The program has been on KNSS 1330/98.7 – Saturdays, since the fall of 1991. The Good Life allows Guy to share his enjoyment of food, wine and travel from the “everyman” perspective. The emphasis is on wine and food enjoyment without snobbery.

The program consists of live interviews with chefs, cookbook authors, winemakers and anyone involved with food, wine and the Good Life. In 1992, Guy was instrumental in starting the Wichita Chapter of the American Institute of Wine and Food. He was the Chairman of the Chapter for the first 3 years and has served three other non-consecutive terms as chair. He was actively involved in starting the Midwest Winefest and the Midwest Beerfest here in Wichita.

Resources

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You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

Transcript

Natalie MacLean 0:00
That’s what I tell my online course students, Guy, is the difference between tasting and drinking is thinking. It’s the difference between going to a movie and just enjoying it. Maybe you’re not going to full blown movie critic, but you’re going to watch for things like character development and narrative, Don’t need to become a full fledged sommelier, but enjoy it on a few more levels now.

Guy Bower 0:22
It’s like you go to the Louvre in Paris, and you look at some of these paintings on the wall. But then you learn about the person who painted it. And how long ago that was, and what were they thinking and why is it called that type of painting and you learn to appreciate stuff a lot more when you do that.

Natalie MacLean 0:38
Exactly. I was a dancer for years. So when I go to a ballet, I have a muscular response to what’s going on there. Others in the audience who might not have a dance background they’re still enjoying it. But that full bodied appreciation comes from having trained in a discipline.

Natalie MacLean 1:00
Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Oh, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie Maclean. And each week, I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle please. And let’s get started. Welcome to Episode 185. What exactly makes the sense of smell so evocative? How can you play with food and wine pairing to discover new delicious flavours? And what can you do to de-risk your exploration of new wines, especially when you’re buying a case in the liquor store? You’ll hear those stories and more in my chat with Guy Bower, the host of The Good Life Show on KNSS News Talk Radio in Wichita Kansas. Guy is actually interviewing me. Now on a personal note before we dive into the show with the continuing story of publishing my new wine memoir Wine Witch on Fire: Rising from the Ashes of Divorce, Depression and Drinking too Much, the reason I love reading memoirs is that they straddled the line between self help books and novels. And yet they’re neither. I always learn from someone else’s experience, but enjoy the far more personal perspective. For instance, how did another woman handle a sudden and unexpected divorce? How did she start dating again and perhaps find new love? I’m not looking for the 12 essential steps to divorce recovery. I can read a self help book for that. Rather, I want to know how the author felt when she got the news. How did she deal with it? What did she try that failed? Of course what worked, but always how did it feel? What was she thinking? I want to be inside her mind and her body vicariously so I can compare my own thoughts and feelings to hers. Similarly, I love reading memoirs for the novel like aspects. There’s a hero or heroine who’s on a journey. There’s a crisis or several and overcoming obstacles. And finally, and ideally for me, a happy ending that’s cathartic. Unlike self help and other nonfiction books, memoirs use the techniques of fiction from narrative drive and plot to character development and dialogue. Though of course, they’re based on real life experience. If you also enjoy memoirs, and you have a favourite one, please let me know what I should read next.

Natalie MacLean 6:02
I’ve posted a link to a blog post called Diary of a Book Launch in the show notes at Natalie maclean.com/185. This is where I share more behind the scenes stories of the journey of taking this memoir from idea to publication. If you want a more intimate insider seat beside me on this journey, please let me know you’d like to become a beta reader and get a sneak peek at the manuscript. Email me at [email protected]. Okay, on with the show.

Guy Bower 6:37
Great programme today. A gal that has been on the programme before. Her name is Natalie Maclean. She is like the guru of wine in North America, certainly in Canada where she lives. And I just don’t know how she does all that she does. She’s nice enough to let us invade her weekend. If I told you everything that she does, it would take up the first quarter of the show. So without further ado, we’ll just say Hi, Natalie, welcome back to the programme.

Natalie MacLean 7:03
Hey, Guy. It’s great to chat with you again.

Guy Bower 7:06
I mean, that Natalie. I just. I know. And I am attracted and like to talk to people who are busy and do so much. And I think compared to any other wine writer, critic, author in all of North America, I don’t think anybody does more on a daily and weekly basis than you do.

Natalie MacLean 7:28
Well, I like to keep myself out of trouble, Guy. And, you know, what can I say? I love my subject. I drink for a living. So how bad can it be?

Guy Bower 7:36
People always say that to me, too. And I said, well I don’t really drink for a living. But I sure like to. And we’re gonna talk extensively about the website because there’s where folks can interact with you. And even though you write about and feature a lot of wines from Canada, and they’re brilliant. A lot of them we can’t get here. But you have a way around that. And you have wines. So this past week’s wines of the week there’s some brilliant ones that are available locally here. And we’ll do that. But let’s go way back. Go back to the beginning, Natalie, and tell me what got you interested in wine, and other than yes, we both love to eat and drink. Where did the light bulb come on that set you on fire?

Natalie MacLean 8:17
Oh, cue the way back music or the harp, whatever they play. I didn’t grow up in a wine loving family, Guy, because I grew up in the East Coast. Scottish family. So it was beer and whiskey on the table. And they really didn’t get into wine until I’d finished graduate school and had the money to get fancy. And my husband and I like to go out to restaurants. And we started trying wines. I remember one particular wine. We went to an Italian bistro around the corner from our apartment, and the server came over and he said would you like a Brunello? And I said, sure thinking it was a pasta dish. Wow, good. And then he brought over the bottle. And it was this robust, beautiful northern Italian red wine. And he poured it in a tumbler, no fancy sniffing and glassware. And it was a beautiful introduction to wine because I didn’t know how to describe it. But as soon as I started smelling it and then tasting it, I thought oh my gosh, what is this? I have to learn more about this. I have to learn how to describe it because I want to ask for it again. I want to drink it again.

Guy Bower 9:21
Isn’t that funny that everyone I know that is a wine writer, a wine producer, whatever. When I asked them that go way back question, most everybody has that aha moment. You know, even if you had been drinking Boone’s Farm or White Zin or whatever, when somebody either deliberately or accidentally pours you some magnificent wine, and you never forget it. It’s a big motivator. Was for me.

Natalie MacLean 9:47
And as you know, Guy, the sense of smell and taste, of course, really is evocative. I mean, it’s the only sense that’s tied to emotions and memory in our brain. The rest of our senses have to be processed through indirect circuits. And that’s why, you know, well Proust Remembrance of Things Past, you know, he eats the Madeleine, the little biscuit, and all his life unfolds in front of him. So, you know, just one sip of that Brunello, and I’m right back there.

Guy Bower 10:14
Yeah. And certainly, when it comes to wine, I just don’t think there’s anything that can evoke those kind of readily available memories and sensations and feelings, and magnificent glass of wine and absolute. And that’s the fun part, then you have done so much OK. So I’m not the I don’t even remember the basics of when you started actively writing about wine and felt that you had the qualifications and the ability to put reviews together. And when you built your website go deeper.

Natalie MacLean 10:47
Well, I say I started drinking when I met my husband, and I haven’t found a reason to stop. He’s now my ex, by the way, but that’s a whole different other story. So I’ve been writing about wine for about 20 years now more than 20 years. And I just learned as I went. I think I still feel like I’m an enthusiastic amateur even though, you know, I have taken courses and so on and written books. But I’m always learning. And I love that about wine. I mean, it is the deep dive, you can go in as deep as you like, and learn about different regions and grapes and styles and food pairings. So as I went along, I added more and more things, to my plate to my glass. From starting with articles to reviewing actively hundreds of wines every month, or actually, sometimes every week, of widely available wines that you can get in your, your area, not so much the Canadian wines, but I review lots of wines from the US and around the world. So anyway, just you know, I guess I just learned as I went. And I love being nosy, so that’s why I wrote the book. So I could ask really nosy impertinent questions that I never ask someone over dinner. That’s why I launched a podcast, you know. I, I learned from others.

Guy Bower 12:03
Yeah, well learn by doing is a great way. You can have all manner of certificate and training, but doing tasting and talking is a great thing. You have grown immensely in the number of followers. And the number of wine reviews that you have listed in. What are you up to now on active members at Natalie MacLean.com.

Natalie MacLean 12:27
We’re about 307,000 thirsty people. So a lot of glasses to fill, but we try our best. And there’s more than 300,000 wine reviews, because they also allow community members to post reviews their own reviews on our website, which in turn are available on the mobile apps for iPhone and Android. So I mean, it’s just exploded as a community, but it’s so much fun. I mean, I just love being in touch with all these people who are passionate about wine and hearing their stories as well.

Guy Bower 13:00
Well, I think the benefit that you have over others is you’re accessible. Whether you like it or not, you are accessible and, and that can be a blessing, or it can be a real pain in the butt.

Natalie MacLean 13:14
Generally, I find I like that. I mean, I have to. It’s how I got into the world of wine by following and talking to people who are accessible or conversational. You know, for me, every time I sit down to write a newsletter, I want the person reading it to feel like we’re just having a chat over the kitchen table. Same with the podcast. Same with the books. I mean, there’s just no need for snobbery and whatever. You know, I do think that’s going away for a lot of the wine world, but I just think we open up more when we’re talked to one on one. I think humour has a great place in the world of wine to make us relax. You know, sciences told us we’re never more receptive than when we’ve just laughed, like, you know, in terms of learning, so why not just have a conversation and have fun with it.

Guy Bower 14:03
Yeah, Wou don’t know this, but I’ve been teaching various wine appreciation and food and wine pairing classes at Wichita State University for since ’98 or ’99. Wow. And the school was always amazed that we would sell out every time. You know, we only could seat 40. I bought the glasses. So they were I had enough glasses for eight wines a piece for 40 with some spare. And I always started those classes, Natalie, with you know, you probably don’t really need a course to teach you how to like wine. You wouldn’t be here if you didn’t already like it. All right, but what I’m gonna do is make you think about it and talk about it. And that’s just like that same thing you said, you know, if you and I sat together and open five bottles of wine, people go you open five bottles. Yeah, we didn’t drink them all. It’s a tasting not a drinking. And to sip and talk about them and smell them. I mean, even I’ve always said if you couldn’t drink at least if I have a good stem and I can put someone in the glass and swirl it around. And I have a lot of pictures of me with my face in a glass, I like to smell wine. But..

Natalie MacLean 15:10
Exactly. And that’s what I tell my online course students, Guy, is the difference between tasting and drinking is thinking. And that doesn’t mean it’s no fun. But it’s the difference between going to a movie and just enjoying it. And that’s great. And going to a movie and saying, I want to get a little bit more out of this. Maybe you’re not going to full blown movie critic, but you’re going to watch for things like character development and narrative and all the rest of it. That’s what you’re doing with why I want to go a little deeper. I still want to enjoy it. I don’t need to become a full fledged sommelier. But I want to think about this a little bit more so that I actually deepen my pleasure of it because I enjoy it on a few more levels now.

Guy Bower 15:49
Oh, man. Well, it’s like, you go to the Louvre in Paris. And you look at some of these paintings on the wall, worse yet you go to a modern art studio in our country. And you look at some of these paintings, and you go meh, but then you learn about the person who painted it. And how long ago that was? And what were they thinking? And why is it called that type of painting? and you learn to appreciate stuff a lot more when you do that.

Natalie MacLean 16:13
Exactly. I was a dancer for years. And so when I go to a ballet, I have a muscular response to what’s going on there. You know, others in the audience who might not have a dance background, you know, they’re still enjoying it. But there’s something that full bodied appreciation that comes from having trained in a discipline.

Guy Bower 16:30
Yeah, like you go, Oh, that that’s gonna hurt tomorrow.

Natalie MacLean 16:35
Them, not me. Yeah, thank goodness.

Guy Bower 16:38
Well, when you know, you said how long you’ve been doing this. And then I’m thinking God, you started wine writing at 12.

Natalie MacLean 16:45
Yeah, it was just a toddler.

Guy Bower 16:48
You’ve held up well, I can I can tell you that.

Natalie MacLean 16:51
Well I’m perfectly preserved. I like to say I’m pickled with all this wine.

Guy Bower 16:56
What a great thing to do. Now, Nat, that let’s talk a little bit about. First we’re gonna keep it focused on you some of your favourite things. And I’ll be the question guy. You be the answer, girl. All right. Okay, we love those aha moments. You already touched on your Italian wine moment. People ask me this all the time. If you can only drink one wine. What’s it gonna be?

Natalie MacLean 17:19
Holy smokes. I assume someone else is paying. First of all, we have to establish that. Yes. So I’m going to assume that. Sure, pour me some Domain Romanné-Conti, the benchmark Burgundy, France. Why not? I love Pinot.

Guy Bower 17:33
Yeah. Alright, then. Now what about your paying and you’ve got a $60 – $70 limit?

Natalie MacLean 17:41
Hmm. Okay. Pretty good parameters. I love La Crema Pinot Noir from California, especially their cool climate Monterey. Beautiful, silky satin, medium bodied, not too much oak or alcohol but bursting with fleshy ripe cherries.

Guy Bower 17:57
Yeah, I agree. It amazes me. I mean pinot thrives in cooler climate, but some of the things we’re doing in the Central Coast I think are comparative or even better than what happens in Carneros and I’d love to see that. What about your favourite food and wine memory?

Natalie MacLean 18:14
Well, I like high low shabby chic, so I love doing you know champagne and potato chips or popcorn. I love the, you know, that swarm of bubbles that effervescence just your palate of the butter or fat of the chips or whatever the popcorn. And then you’re ready for another bite and it tastes almost as good as the first one you keep going. I can finish a bag no problem that way.

Guy Bower 18:39
You and me both. I like a big, rich buttery Chardonnay with movie theatre buttered popcorn. Oh, yes. We all know it’s not butter. It’s some kind of fake oil thing, but…

Natalie MacLean 18:49
That’s okay. We’re not gonna think about that we’re just gonna enjoy

Guy Bower 18:54
When you think, and again, people we collectively but certainly people that are learning new and exploring more about food and wine pairing. Always say well you know what about red wine with meat, white wine with fish and we all know that that yeah, it’s something you can hang your hat on. Your best food and wine pairing experience that you have either engineered or been served? And then probably more importantly to follow that with the most unusual.

Natalie MacLean 19:25
Okay, let’s see. I think the best food and wine pairing I’ve ever had was a Valentine’s Day dinner that my partner cooked for me. He’s a good cook thank God because I don’t cook. And Valentine’s Day is coming around, so I probably should speak a little louder so he hears me that. Reminder. Reminder. But he did a lovely poached salmon and we had a rose a champagne from Bellicart Salman was so gorgeous. The pink and pink but also the flavours. It was just melt in your mouth. Kind of love him forever for that and other things.

Guy Bower 20:00
Well in there now and you we both know this, but a lot of people don’t appreciate it, certainly in retrospective not on the moment. Often times, it’s not really the wine and the food, it’s who and where you are.

Natalie MacLean 20:15
Exactly. That’s why you can have a beautiful, inexpensive little wine beside the Mediterranean when you’re travelling and you’re with someone you love or your best friend or whatever. And then you take that same bottle back to your rainy cold apartment. And it’s like, what happens? This bottle changed?No, you did! Its your perception and the atmosphere.

Guy Bower 20:38
I love that. How about the weirdest thing? There’s nothing out of bounds because in our collective opinion, I believe I can say that for us. You know, drink what you like, if you want white Zin with your steak, knock yourself out. There’s no party foul unless you make it. But some of the weirdest things you’ve ever paired with or enjoyed that was a surprise?

Natalie MacLean 20:59
Yeah, sure. I’ve had Twizzlers, the red licorice with Zinfandel was actually a dry red Zinfandel. But because the beautiful California Zin had so much berry ripeness and fairly high alcohol. And as, you know, alcohol can give the perception of sweetness. It was beautiful. It was just like, Oh, yes. The new way to have Twizzlers is dipped into California Zin is just plain out weird, but it worked.

Guy Bower 21:28
I wrote an article about it, and then did a TV segment for a local channel on this craze that came out several years ago of pairing Girl Scout cookies with wine. Oh, yeah. And I said, no, I’m not doing it. You’re crazy. But I said, okay, okay. So I’ll open mindedly give it a try. And I wasn’t blown away with anything, but I did have a Barefoot Zinfandel. Now we’re talking, you know, she makes beautiful wines at the price point. And this was a fruit forward is not good enough, it was unctously fruit forward with a hint of sweetness. This is an Zinfandel. And that with any of the cookies was good. You know, I have to try that. Well, then for a more serious pairing. I have pretty fond memories of taking really salty pretzels and having them with bubbly. Oh, yes. Because the salt will make the perception of if there’s even a modicum of residual sugar, it kind of makes that stand out and any bubbly, but that and, you know, we lived in Spain when I was in the Air Force. And it was one of those glorious times of my life. And I used to invite the whole squadron of fighter pilots and their wives out to the house. And I would cook ribs all afternoon. And we would go through cases of Freixnet. We call it Frex. And, you know, it was, well, it made my wife’s nickname stick to this day of bubbles. That’s her nick name.

Natalie MacLean 23:11
That’s a good nickname.

Guy Bower 23:12
It is a good nickname. And she’s good at it. Nat, you two books already. Is there another wine book in your near future?

Natalie MacLean 23:21
There is. So the first one was Red, White and Drunk All Over. The second one was Unquenchable. You can tell how seriously I take my topic. But the third one, Guy, is going to be a memoir. And it’s about my life in the wine industry. It’s a real behind the same story of what really goes on. So it is a blend of learning about wine, but also kind of if you’ve ever dreamed about getting into the industry or finding out like, gosh, I might like to write about wine, start a winery, whatever. I think folks will be interested. And the thing I’m doing right now, Guy, is looking for beta readers. So if anyone wants a sneak peek at the manuscript, they can email me and they can take a look at the book before it’s published. So if they want to email me at [email protected]. I welcome anybody who’s interested.

Guy Bower 24:10
Well, it’s just one of the many things you do. Okay, instead of me blowing your horn. I’m gonna let you do it. So I don’t mess anything up. You have been privileged to get some pretty high accolades from both Canada and the United States. Share with some of those with us.

Natalie MacLean 24:30
Thank you, um, one of the ones that has been meaningful to me and most recent is the New York Times picked my podcast, Unreserved Wine Talk, as one of the seven best on drinks. So I was pretty happy about that. And you know, you’ve got a listening audience right here. So if they want to listen to more about wine, they can find me on any podcast catcher app either under my name or Unreserved Wine Talk search we’ll get them there. But yeah, I’ve been writing books and there have been writing awards along the way. But I think, you know, I’m most gratified by the response I get from the people who either read my books or take my online courses. Food and wine pairing is my jam, there’s a wine for jam. But they can all find me, as you’ve said, so kindly at my website, NatalieMaclean.com.

Guy Bower 25:22
You know, you’re always given away something. And on your website, right now, if everyone goes to NatalieMacLean.com, you’re giving away the Ultimate Food and Wine Pairing Guide.

Natalie MacLean 25:33
Yes, it is a free download. And it’s like a template that people like to either keep on their phones, or they can print it out if they like, and keep it in the kitchen or the wine cellar. And it just gives all the major food groups red wine, white wine, sparkling, rosé, dessert wine, and what pairs best with a range of dishes. So it’s a quick guide to stimulate some new pairings for you.

Guy Bower 25:55
Yep. And the fun part about that is it’s like a recipe. Recipes are great, you can follow them precisely. Or you can go gosh, that sounds good, but I really like I’m going to put a little more cumin in that recipe. Or in this case, I’m going to try a little bit different wine with the pairing suggestion. And that’s what I like. It’s all about having fun and then playing with your food and wine.

Natalie MacLean 26:18
It is. It should be just a great big experiment. And that’s what I encourage my online course students to do. Don’t get nervous about finding the wine. Just have fun with it. And you know, go into the liquor store, buy a case of wine, talk to the store staff or just say hey, I like – I don’t know – a full bodied, Malbec what do you suggest? And maybe they’ll say, well try this Shiraz, try this Cabernet from Chile, you know, and just de-risk it that way. Just experiment. Take it home, I’ll bet you’ll find two or three wines that are your new favourites.

Guy Bower 26:51
Yep, I like to. On the site. There’s also yet another free downloadable Insiders Guide to new cheese and wine pairing.

Natalie MacLean 26:59
I love cheese and wine pairings I do. That’s my other thing that I love. I mean cheese almost as varied as wine, the different types and countries and rinds and flavours. I also offer a course on cheese and wine pairing specifically. But yeah, I just never run out of different combinations when it comes to cheese and wine.

Guy Bower 27:19
I love this, I gotta. I think it was last week. It was from the Wisconsin Cheese Board. You know, it talks about the most popular cheeses state by state. I don’t know if I’ll buy into every state that they have there, but it’s interesting. And it talks about some of the basic cheeses that we all know and love. And you know, everybody thinks of Kraft Cheddar cheese or simple low acid cheddar cheese. Well, this would have a pretty good array of stuff. And we’re gonna talk about that a little later. But, Natalie, I can’t tell you again how much I appreciate all the time you spent with us and can’t wait to see the new book. But more importantly, it’s great to see all that you’ve done and all that you offer for us wine enthusiasts at NatalieMaclean.com.

Natalie MacLean 28:04
Guy, it’s been so great to reconnect with you. We’ll have to do it in person one of these days we can have a glass or three together.

Guy Bower 28:11
Well, you know now as a retired aviator, as much time as I’ve spent in Canada on layovers for FedEx, I should have tried to find you on one of those days. But we just have to come visit or absolutely better yet, we should invite you to Wichita put you up, pay you to come down here and we’ll do a an event for our chapter of the American Institute of wine and food one of the few remaining active chapters. Yeah,

Natalie MacLean

I could do it too, when my new book comes out, maybe combined it all together even better. There you go. It’s a plan.

Guy Bower 28:45
We will do it. I want you to have a great weekend what’s left of it. Did you get much snow out of this last front that pass through?

Natalie MacLean 28:53
No, it’s just a nice, crisp, clean covering of snow. It’s very wintry, but we’re always very wintry here. It’s all good.

Guy Bower 29:04
Well, have a great weekend and keep in touch and we’ll talk to you again soon.

Natalie MacLean 29:07
All right, Guy. Cheers.

Natalie MacLean 29:15
Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoy by chat with Guy. In the shownotes, you’ll find my email contact the full transcript of my conversation with Guy, links to his radio show and website, and where you can find the live stream video version of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube Live every Wednesday at 7pm. You’ll also find a link to my free online class, Five Food and Wine Pairing Mistakes that Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever. That’s all in the show notes at NatalieMacLean.com/185. Email me if you have a sip, tip, question or want to be a beta reader of my new memoir at [email protected]. You won’t want to miss next week when I chat with you Eugenia Keegan, the General Manager and Vice President of the Oregon portfolio for Jackson Family Wines, which includes Penner-Ash, Willakenzie, Gran Moraine, Zena Crown, Sidouri, and La Crema. She’s a pioneering legend in the wine industry and has some fabulous stories to share about her decades long career. In the meantime, if you missed episode 31 go back and take a listen. I chat about pairing food and charcuterie with author Jennifer McLagan. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Unknown Speaker 30:32
I always say with the fat book, if you eat fat, you stay thin. It’s true you know people always said to me, they said well you know how come you don’t weigh, you know, 500 pounds. I said because I eat fat. I don’t eat a lot of sugar. I don’t eat a lot of snack food and fat is very satisfying. And the other important thing about that to remember is that’s where the flavour is. A lot of flavours are only carried through fat. You can’t get the flavour out of water food without fat and that’s why if you eat fat free food, it’s really not satisfying at all and you eat twice as much.

Natalie MacLean 31:05
Right sounds like the alcohol in wine, it’s the carrier of flavour. Exactly. People try to make de-alcoholized wines and it’s like

Unknown Speaker 31:14
Well, exactly, there is no one. You know, it’s not that thing. I mean, you don’t probably want a super high alcoholic wine but alcohol, fat they carry the flavour they add to the whole deliciousness of the product.

Natalie MacLean 31:30
If you liked this episode, please tell one friend about it this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in the wines and stories we discussed. Thank you for taking the time to join me here. I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a versatile summary Rosé.

Natalie MacLean 31:52
You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full body bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at NatalieMacLean.com/ subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.