Spanish Wine Pairings + Cookbook Creation Secrets with Barbara Scott-Goodman

Natalie MacLean
May8th
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Introduction

Why do Spanish wines pair well with earthy, savoury dishes? How does food photography affect the cost of a cookbook? How can you set yourself up for success as an aspiring food or drink writer?

In this episode of the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast, I’m chatting with author Barbara Scott-Goodman.

You can find the wines we discussed here.

 

Giveaway

Three of you will win a copy of Barbara Scott-Goodman’s terrific book Wine Time: 70+ Recipes for Simple Bites That Pair Perfectly with Wine.

 

How to Win

To qualify, all you have to do is email me at [email protected] and let me know that you’ve posted a review of the podcast.

It takes less than 30 seconds: On your phone, scroll to the bottom here, where the reviews are, and click on “Tap to Rate.”

After that, scroll down a tiny bit more and click on “Write a Review.” That’s it!

I’ll choose one person randomly from those who contact me.

Good luck!

 

Join me on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube Live Video

Join the live-stream video of this conversation on Wednesday at 7 pm eastern on Instagram Live Video, Facebook Live Video or YouTube Live Video.

I’ll be jumping into the comments as we watch it together so that I can answer your questions in real-time.

I want to hear from you! What’s your opinion of what we’re discussing? What takeaways or tips do you love most from this chat? What questions do you have that we didn’t answer?

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Highlights

  • What are Barbara’s three favourite wine pairings?
  • Why is food photography so expensive and how does it affect the cost of a cookbook?
  • Do photographs of the dishes enhance or detract from restaurant menus?
  • What are Barbara’s favourite cookbooks and why?
  • How has the cookbook market evolved over the past 10 years and what are some of the trends Barbara sees now?
  • What were some of the most interesting cocktails Barbara came across while writing Brooklyn Bar Bites?
  • Which marketing channels were the most successful for Wine Bites and Wine Time?
  • How can you set yourself up for success as an aspiring food or drink writer?
  • Which chef and musician would Barbara like to share a bottle of wine with?
  • What makes a summer afternoon outdoors the perfect setting to enjoy a glass of wine?
  • Which simple high-low food pairing should you try next?

 

Key Takeaways

  • I loved Barbara’s pairing of Romesco spread and a robust Rioja from Spain. It’s on my list to try this week.
  • Do photos of the dishes enhance or detract from restaurant menus? Barbara believes that photography is an unnecessary expense for most restaurant menus. These days, many people look at the website of the restaurant before they make a reservation. The sites tend to have good photos that can be the selling point. Also, dishes change frequently so you’d have to keep photographing and keep redesigning the menu.
  • How does the inclusion of photography affect the cost of a cookbook? Food photography is expensive. As Barabra says, the cost floors people. Authors and readers want a lot of big, colorful pictures. That requires a lot of time and there isn’t room for mistakes. Barbara mentioned working on a book and when the costing came back, they decided to do illustrations instead because it was so far out of budget.
  • How can you set yourself up for success as an aspiring food or drink writer? I agree with her that it’s a lot of work so make sure that you’re serious about it. Develop a platform, start working on recipes or tasting wines, give your friends recipes to test, and take the feedback. Have a vision. What kind of book do you really want to do? What’s important to you?

 

Start The Conversation: Click Below to Share These Wine Tips

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Spanish wines are getting really good these days. - Barbara Scott-Goodman Barbara Scott-Goodman Click to tweet

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Food photography is very expensive and there’s not a lot of room for mistakes. - Barbara Scott-Goodman Barbara Scott-Goodman Click to tweet

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Make sure that you’re serious about it, develop a platform, and start working. - Barbara Scott-Goodman Barbara Scott-Goodman Click to tweet

 

About Barbara Scott-Goodman

Barbara Scott-Goodman is an author, art director, and designer of cookbooks for many publishers. Her most recent book is Wine Time ((Chronicle Books, 2021). Other books include Cake (Penguin Press, 2018), a collaboration with writer and illustrator Maira Kalman, Delicious Dessert Cocktails (Bluestreak Books, 2018), Brooklyn Bar Bites (Rizzoli, 2016), Happy Hour at Home (Running Press, 2013), and Wine Bites (Chronicle Books, 2011).

Her work has been featured in publications in print and online, including Food & Wine, Bon Appetit, Saveur, Publishers Weekly, Food52, and Sweet Paul. Her books always emphasize the importance of warm and intimate gatherings and eating, drinking, and living well in this era of non-ostentatious, casual entertaining.

 

Resources

 

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Thirsty for more?

  • Sign up for my free online wine video class where I’ll walk you through The 5 Wine & Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner (and how to fix them forever!)
  • You’ll find my books here, including Unquenchable: A Tipsy Quest for the World’s Best Bargain Wines and Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass.
  • The new audio edition of Red, White and Drunk All Over: A Wine-Soaked Journey from Grape to Glass is now available on Amazon.ca, Amazon.com and other country-specific Amazon sites; iTunes.ca, iTunes.com and other country-specific iTunes sites; Audible.ca and Audible.com.

 

Transcript

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:00:00) – I did this romesco spread made with roasted red peppers and slivered almonds. It’s Spanish. You blend it all together and you can use it as a sauce, as a side for vegetables or on toast. It’s really great with Rioja. Like good Spanish red. Spanish wines are getting really good these days.

Natalie MacLean (00:00:22) – Oh they are, they’re wonderful. And they’re not too heavy, fruity like sweet. They’ve got that sort of almost earthy, dusty with a lot of savory foods.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:00:31) – Spanish wines really pair well with all that.

Natalie MacLean (00:00:40) – Do you have a thirst to learn about wine? Do you love stories about wonderfully obsessive people, hauntingly beautiful places, and amusingly awkward social situations? Well, that’s the blend here on the Unreserved Wine Talk podcast. I’m your host, Natalie MacLean, and each week I share with you unfiltered conversations with celebrities in the wine world, as well as confessions from my own tipsy journey as I write my third book on this subject. I’m so glad you’re here. Now pass me that bottle, please, and let’s get started.

Natalie MacLean (00:01:22) – Welcome to episode 284. Why do Spanish wines pair so well with earthy, savory dishes? How does food photography affect the cost of a cookbook? And how can you set yourself up for success as an aspiring food or drink writer? In today’s episode, you’ll hear the stories and tips that answer those questions in part two of our chat with Barbara Scott Goodman, author of Wine Bites Simple Morsels That Pair Perfectly with Wine, among other books. You don’t need to have listened to part one from last week first, but I hope you’ll go back to it if you missed it after you finish this one. Those of you in my Wine Smart course, a full bodied framework to taste, pair and buy wine like a pro will be familiar with many of the challenging pairings that we’re discussing today. Three of you are going to win a copy of Barbara’s beautifully illustrated book with recipes and wine pairings. All you have to do is email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com, and let me know that you’d like to win a copy.

Natalie MacLean (00:02:31) – I’ll choose three people randomly from those who contact me. So let’s announce more recent winners of the book giveaways to the dome. I really do have to work on my sound effects. The winner of the Jura wine book by Winkler is Daniel Chandler from Toronto. A copy of the South American Wine Guide by Amanda Barnes is going to dawn, bought from Tillsonburg. Oh, and Paul Barber from Brantford has one on Burgundy. From Maddening to Marvellous in 59 Wine Tales. Woo hoo! So if you haven’t won a book yet, now’s your chance. Keep listening, as my goal is to offer lots more books and other prizes with every episode, and you can qualify no matter where you live. I’ll announce more winners next week. Just email me at Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com if you’d like to be considered. Speaking of books, have you read wine which on fire, rising from the ashes of divorce, defamation and drinking too much? If yes, well then, have you bought a copy for a friend or a family member? Please do that if you’d like to support this podcast that I do for you on a volunteer basis to ensure it continues and to ensure I don’t go thirsty.

Natalie MacLean (00:03:53) – You can order it for yourself or someone else from any online book retailer, no matter where you live. It usually arrives in a day or two. And of course, the e-book is instant poof. It’s a fast, fun read. Every little bit helps spread the message in this book of hope, justice, and resilience. You can send a copy directly to a friend or family member via the online retailers, and make their day when a gift arrives in the mail, rather than another bill. Yay! I’ll put a link in the show notes to all the retailers worldwide at Natalie MacLean dot com. Forward slash two eight for. I also offer a free companion guide that has book club and wine group discussion questions that can also spark a conversation between two friends or a partner spouse who are reading the book together. It asks questions such as how you feel about your own relationship with alcohol, especially post-pandemic marketing tactics toward women and other groups, and whether social media is still a good place to connect with others.

Natalie MacLean (00:04:58) – The guide also has wine recommendations, pairings and tips for organizing your own informal wine tasting, and you can get that for free at wine which on fire. Com. Of course, I’ll link to that in the show notes as well. If you’ve read the book or are reading it, I’d love to hear from you. If your book club or wine group plans to read it. Let me know if you’d like me to join in via zoom. I also have a summary document that you can send to book club members who are deciding on upcoming books. Email me at Nathalie at Natalie MacLean. Com. Okay, on with the show. So maybe from Wine time. Share with us three of your favorite food and wine pairings.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:05:45) – Well, there’s the bruschetta and the things are on the cover, which you can go either way with that sort of food you could do. I like a dry white wine with that? Or you could have a good red with prosciutto and cheese. There’s that. Oh, there’s a recipe for meatballs in small meatballs that are made with pork and ricotta.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:06:09) – And a Chianti is great with that. That’s a.

Natalie MacLean (00:06:12) – Really. Why does that work?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:06:14) – It’s classic Italian and they really offset each other really nicely. You can do the meatballs separately, or you could serve them with marinara sauce. And Chianti is very good with that. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:06:28) – What goes together goes together I guess they say I guess. Yes. Yeah. Do you have another one there?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:06:34) – Let me think. What else? Oh yeah, I did this. Romesco spread. Romesco is made with roasted red peppers. It’s Spanish. It’s with roasted red peppers and slivered almonds. And you blend it all together and you can use it as a sauce, as a side for vegetables or on toast. And it’s really great with Rioja, like good Spanish red and Spanish wines are getting really good these days.

Natalie MacLean (00:07:05) – Oh they are, they’re wonderful. And they’re not too heavy, fruity like sweet. They’re like, they’ve got that sort of almost dusty, which is a good acidity. Yeah, I like it.

Natalie MacLean (00:07:15) – Earthy, dusty with a lot of savory foods. Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:07:18) – Yeah. They’re good to pair Spanish wines. Really pair well with all of that. But it’s romesco sauce and it’s really wonderful. You can put it on anything wonderful.

Natalie MacLean (00:07:30) – And I don’t know if you have wine bites there with you, or if you can remember any favorite pairings from that book.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:07:36) – Let me see. I do have it.

Natalie MacLean (00:07:37) – Okay. You want to hold that one up because we can see it. There we go. Yep. Okay. Little higher. There we go in. And again great. We’ll put that in the show notes the book cover and link. Yeah. Great. Thank you.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:07:49) – Well there’s the homemade pizza that’s on the cover. It’s always good.

Natalie MacLean (00:07:54) – Oh yes. Let’s start there. What’s on it.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:07:58) – It’s caramelized onions and mozzarella and it’s really good.

Natalie MacLean (00:08:06) – It sounds great. And what did you pair with that one. It’s got a bit of sweetness.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:08:10) – Yeah. It’s a red. Oh I think it’s a Pinot noir.

Natalie MacLean (00:08:13) – Oh yes. Really good juicy cherry notes and yeah. Yeah that would be. That was wonderful.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:08:19) – And I also have a smoked salmon and caper spread that you could do for lunch or brunch or something. And I like that with cava.

Natalie MacLean (00:08:29) – Spanish sparkling.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:08:30) – I’m a fan of cava. Yeah. I mean, you could make a mimosa if you wanted to.

Natalie MacLean (00:08:37) – If you.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:08:37) – Insist. If you insist. But, I mean, it’s I’m not a fan of brunch, so. But yeah, cava and smoked salmon spread is very good together.

Natalie MacLean (00:08:49) – That would be great. Is there one more from wine bites that we would mention?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:08:53) – You know, I haven’t looked at this book in so long.

Natalie MacLean (00:08:56) – I know it’s been a while.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:08:57) – I know it’s been a while. There’s a rogue for cheese tarts, Roquefort cheese.

Natalie MacLean (00:09:03) – blue cheese.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:09:04) – Yeah. Blue cheese, which is good with Zinfandel.

Natalie MacLean (00:09:07) – Oh, yeah. Zinfandel has the alcoholic heft and depth of flavor to take on a blue cheese.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:09:13) – Yeah, exactly.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:09:14) – Exactly. Yeah. Blue cheese is a tricky one to pair, but that is a good one.

Natalie MacLean (00:09:18) – And if you did a third book or a new edition of either, is there something you would change, add a new direction you would take?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:09:25) – Well, that’s a good question. I think I’d like to do a great mix of stuff. I like kind of the high low of things. Like in today’s New York Times, there’s an article of the wine article is about fried chicken and champagne.

Natalie MacLean (00:09:41) – Oh yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:09:42) – Classic shabby chic. Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:09:44) – Like putting rhinestones on jeans.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:09:46) – Exactly, exactly. So I would like to go in that direction because, you know, some people don’t want to spend a ton of money on wine or can’t spend a ton of money on wine, but they still want to eat well and drink well. Or, you know, once in a while you splurge and you have something really great Cabernet or something with steak.

Natalie MacLean (00:10:08) – Something simple. Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:10:09) – Just yeah, simple. But I like the Halo idea.

Natalie MacLean (00:10:13) – That’s a great idea, I like that. I hope you’ll do a third book.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:10:17) – So too.

Natalie MacLean (00:10:20) – We’ve covered some of the areas I wanted to ask you about naturally. So getting back to the cookbooks, how much do the photos add to the cost of a cookbook?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:10:30) – A lot.

Natalie MacLean (00:10:31) – A lot like, does it double the cost or more?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:10:33) – Well it’s expensive.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:10:36) – Everyone wants a lot. I want this really big, beautiful book and I want big, colorful bleed pictures, and I want all these things. And then I go, well, or production person could say, okay, well, this is what it’s going to cost. And it just floors people. But it is expensive because it’s a lot of time. Photographers usually charged by the day, a stylist charged by the day. So it is expensive. So the books are going to cost more. I mean, there’s just no way around it. I did a book last year with a publisher called Game Nights. It was about snacks for when you have a poker night or have people over to have for the mahjong group or the book club.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:11:22) – And they wanted, you know, lots of pictures and it was unaffordable for what they wanted to what their P and L came to. So we did illustrations and it came out great. It was great. But food photography is very expensive and there’s not a lot of room for mistakes.

Natalie MacLean (00:11:41) – No. It’s true. Absolutely. And conversely, sometimes we see restaurant menus with pictures of the food, you know, on the menu. And we think that’s really low brow. But what’s your opinion of that? Is it helpful? Is it just situational? Contextual. Do you think fancy restaurants should be doing it?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:11:57) – I don’t think so. You know, most people when they go out to dinner. Now look at the website of the restaurant and there are a lot of websites with good photos on, and that can be the selling point. I don’t think that pictures on a menu would really make any difference. I don’t think it’s necessary. Also, you know, dishes change, stuff changes, so you’d have to keep photographing and keep redesigning the menu, right?

Natalie MacLean (00:12:24) – That be expensive.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:12:26) – Yeah, yeah, I think that would be kind of I don’t know, I love to read descriptions of dishes in a on a menu like then it would be great to have a picture maybe. Or you could say, can I just go in the kitchen and look at that?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:12:41) – I’ll just be a minute maybe. Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:12:44) – Before I decide.

Natalie MacLean (00:12:46) – That’s great. So in addition to your own wonderful books, what are your three favorite cookbooks of all time?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:12:54) – There’s one I’ve used for a long time. It’s Patricia Wells Bistro cooking. I actually worked with her a very long time ago, and she’s wonderful. She sort of went all around France, where she lives and got recipes from small restaurants and bistros all over the country, and the recipes all are excellent and they really work, so I like that one. I really like David Tanis books. It’s called A Platter of Fakes, and it’s a number of recipes that he makes little dinner parties. And again, some of it’s very simple and easy to do.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:13:35) – Some of it’s a little more complicated. The photographs are beautiful and the book is beautifully designed. And I’ve gotten a lot of good recipes from him, actually. They’re very well tested to. And so, you know, they’re going to work.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:13:49) – Excellent.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:13:50) – And of course, Julia, all of Julia Child’s books.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:13:53) – Yeah. Just classic.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:13:55) – Yeah. You can really learn so much from her books.

Natalie MacLean (00:13:58) – Yeah. I’m curious, how many cookbooks do you have approximately in your own collection. Is it like over 50? Over 100?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:07) – It’s about 300. Oh, it’s about 300. And every once in a while they’re all behind me. I go, I think, you know, it’s time to weed this out. It’s useless. And then I start reading them and go, oh my God, yeah, I forgot about this.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:23) – And.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:24) – I’ve got to make that.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:25) – Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:26) – So yeah, I have about 300, 350.

Natalie MacLean (00:14:30) – And I see some of them in the background. But where do you keep them in your home right here.

Natalie MacLean (00:14:34) – Are you in your kitchen right now or you.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:36) – Know, I’m in my office. I don’t have endless amounts of space either. It’s a New York apartment.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:42) – Oh, yes. Right.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:44) – Remember?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:14:45) – Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:14:47) – And what’s your opinion of celebrity cookbooks? You’ve mentioned chef cookbooks. So that could be considered that. And I know there’s a whole range of what’s out there, but what’s the best and worst of celebrity cookbooks? You don’t have to name them. But what do they bring to the market?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:02) – I’m not.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:03) – Sure. Celebrity cookbooks, they sell well because they’re celebrities and they have a platform and publishers like that because, you know, it’s instant name recognition and instant advertising. And, you know, I think it’s kind of all over the place. I think that some of them are fine, some of them are good. I know people who have actually worked with celebrities and been their ghostwriters or produce their cookbooks, and. Some of it has been. I’ve heard nightmare stories and I’ve heard great stories.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:40) – So I always feel like you have to have something other than being a celebrity.

Natalie MacLean (00:15:46) – Sure, maybe it ties back to a childhood love of cooking or something.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:51) – Yeah, but.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:52) – I don’t know. I don’t think I have any celebrity cookbooks.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:55) – Okay. I don’t think it’s definitive.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:15:59) – It’s not who the person I would run to to figure out how to cook something.

Natalie MacLean (00:16:05) – Although some cookbook writers do become celebrities in their own right, like Nigella Lawson.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:16:10) – Oh, sure.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:16:11) – Yeah, but she was she always a cook? She was a home cook. Her she’s good. Her books are lovely. Her books are great. I think she’s a very good writer, too.

Natalie MacLean (00:16:21) – She is. She’s very intelligent. What trends are you seeing in cookbooks? What’s changed over the past five years?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:16:28) – Well, the market’s gotten much tougher. When I came into it. It was pretty open. It’s sort of like. Well, it was like a lot of people could bring their own ideas to the table, so to speak.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:16:43) – And now I think it’s gotten because publishing’s been so gone through such a difficult time. People are very cautious about what they’re going to publish and how much it’s going to cost and what the bottom line is. So they are going to go with a celebrity before they may go with an unknown home chef. And it’s because there’s again, the name recognition. Whether it’s a good thing or a bad thing, I don’t know. But I feel like it’s about publishing. It’s about people want their instant market to be there. Yes.

Natalie MacLean (00:17:22) – Well, that is the first question any publisher asks you when you’re marketing a book. What is your platform meaning? How many people are you going to bring to buy our book immediately?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:17:29) – Exactly, exactly. And it’s gotten more and more so with Instagram and TikTok. And there are TikTok stars who are selling cookbooks and like, oh.

Natalie MacLean (00:17:41) – Wow, that’s interesting. Okay.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:17:44) – Yeah. And a lot of them have never written anything. So it’s a weird trend.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:17:50) – Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:17:51) – And do you think I will change how cookbooks are produced or written?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:17:55) – It may I mean, I is everywhere, I’m not sure, but it remains to be seen.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:18:00) – But probably, you know, people could say, well, there’s a formula to writing a recipe is like there is. Yes, everything has to be in order and everything has to make sense. But I don’t know that you’ll get that personality to come through, which what I was talking about is like, are you really guiding the reader and teaching anything and helping them make the best dish that they can? I don’t think I could do that.

Natalie MacLean (00:18:25) – No, I think I has zero personality, actually. And, you know, some of my favorite, like I don’t read a lot of cookbooks, but some that I’ve read through my favorites have a memoir element to them or a narrative, which is lovely in addition to being clear and creative in the combinations of ingredients. Yeah. So I really fails miserably should say artificial intelligence for anyone familiar, but fails miserably at those aspects of human creativity.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:18:54) – Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:18:55) – You know, if you want to write a press release and can’t come up with a how to do something or say something, it’s helpful.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:03) – But I hope it doesn’t take our lives over.

Natalie MacLean (00:19:06) – Not before we’re done. Right, Barbara?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:08) – Exactly. Not done yet.

Natalie MacLean (00:19:10) – Yeah, exactly. Now, you’ve written that book. You’ve mentioned it. Brooklyn bar bites pairing cocktails and bar food recipes. Bartenders now seem to be mixologists or even liquid chefs.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:20) – Oh, sure.

Natalie MacLean (00:19:21) – Yeah. What are three of the most interesting or weirdest cocktails that you included in the book?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:27) – Oh.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:28) – That book was so much fun. The photographer and her assistant and I just drove around Brooklyn and went into bars and photographed, and it was just fun.

Natalie MacLean (00:19:39) – You could do a bar tour with your book, go to Brooklyn, take the book with you like a passport.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:43) – Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:19:43) – And surprisingly, most of them are still in business. I think we lost a couple in the pandemic, but there’s a bar called Achilles Heel that’s in Brooklyn, or they’re all in Brooklyn, and they had this drink called A Lucky Dog, and it’s Campari and orange and I think some champagne.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:06) – And then they salted the rim. So it’s almost like it’s got an almost like a margarita element to it. I love Campari, I don’t know if I know. It’s kind of a.

Natalie MacLean (00:20:17) – Bitter taste.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:18) – Right. Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:18) – Yeah, it’s an acquired taste to a lot of people. But that was really good. And they served it with paté for some reason.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:26) – Did it work?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:27) – It was really good. Maybe we were all so tired after shooting all this stuff.

Natalie MacLean (00:20:33) – Like that day in Venice.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:35) – Yeah, it’s like it’s going to taste great.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:36) – This is so cold and icy and delicious. Yeah. I came away from. Oh, I came away from that. Like that whole experience of that book. It was published by Rizzoli.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:48) – I had so.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:20:48) – Much respect for these guys and these women who work in their restaurant people. They’re bar people and they’re totally committed. They work very hard. I thought that everyone who was involved in the book was very special, and they were so good at what they do.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:21:06) – And, you know, we just think, you know, you just go to a bar and have a drink and a snack and there is so much else going on and so much work put into a well-run, good bar. I really enjoyed all the whole experience of that book.

Natalie MacLean (00:21:21) – Any other cocktails that you remember?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:21:23) – Did I remember?

Natalie MacLean (00:21:25) – Sorry.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:21:26) – There’s a bar called the Long Island Bar. It was actually around in the 40s and 50s, and then it was abandoned, but everything was left intact. And then some people took it over and they turned it into a really nice, really nice cocktail bar. And they have a drink called, which is not a new drink, it’s a boulevardier and I think it’s bourbon based. And that was really delicious. And they served it with cheese curds because the chef was from Wisconsin and he loves cheese curds. I can’t say that that really worked, but.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:22:12) – He’s just.

Natalie MacLean (00:22:12) – Forcing his hometown.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:22:13) – Yeah, it was a good concept.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:22:15) – Yeah, it was good.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:22:16) – Yeah. It’ll be fun to eat there.

Natalie MacLean (00:22:17) – Kind of squeaky. And then you have your bourbon drink to wash them down. Cool. And so in marketing your books, what have been the most successful channels, especially for wine time and wine bites? Asking for a friend here. I’m wondering what’s been successful.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:22:34) – Well, I.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:22:35) – Have to say, wide bites sold very well. It did very well at Crate Barrel stores, which they tied in with their bar program. They have really nice barware classes and, you know, cocktail things, and they sort of packaged it with it in conjunction with their barware. And that did very well. And also the wineries and I think also because Chronicle is based in San Francisco, they know, you know, all the Napa, Sonoma wineries, and they got the books into a lot of those wineries. And, you know, people go to wineries as you know, and do tastings, and they might want to buy something other than a bottle of wine to walk away with.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:23:22) – And so the book did really well, and it still does. I think they still have, you know, sell at wineries.

Natalie MacLean (00:23:28) – That’s great. Good to know. Okay.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:23:31) – Give them a call, I just.

Natalie MacLean (00:23:33) – Might. What advice do you have for aspiring food and drink writers?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:23:37) – I guess it would be to develop a platform to start a blog. Start a first of all, also make sure you’re serious about it. You know, I think a lot of people go, oh, that looks like fun. That looks easy. It’s not. It’s like everything else. It’s a lot of work. And make sure that you’re serious about it. Develop a platform. Start working on recipes, working on the writing. Give your friends recipes to test. Take the feedback and you know, have a vision. What kind of book do you really want to do? What’s important to you? What do you think you know? Don’t do a baking book if you’re not a baker. I have to take that back because I did that.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:24:20) – But.

Natalie MacLean (00:24:21) – But you were willing to put yourself into it. And.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:24:24) – Yes. And it was more.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:24:25) – Of a concept. More of a concept with the illustrator, but you’re really good at something. If there’s some specialty, you know, say you’re a master pickler or say you’re really good at making soup, start your collection and have a repertoire of recipes that you’re good at and write them.

Natalie MacLean (00:24:47) – Yeah, absolutely. Cool. So wow, the time has flown. Just a lightning round. Some quick questions and short answers. If you could have or share a bottle of wine with any person in the world, Barbara, living or dead, who would that be and which wine would you open?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:04) – Oh boy.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:04) – That’s a tough one. I think it would be Julia Child.

Natalie MacLean (00:25:09) – Oh, that’d be nice, wouldn’t it?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:10) – Well, my second guess would be David Bowie.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:13) – Oh, why David Bowie?

Natalie MacLean (00:25:14) – That’s interesting.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:16) – I’m just bad for him, I think. I think he would have a lot of interesting things to talk about.

Natalie MacLean (00:25:23) – And what bottle would you open? Yeah.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:26) – Something very.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:27) – Expensive that I would like him to.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:29) – Bring. Oh, yes. He should bring the wine. Not you, I think a white Burgundy. Yes.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:35) – Or some serious champagne.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:37) – Absolutely.

Natalie MacLean (00:25:38) – I don’t think he’d mind. Who would have the budget for it?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:40) – He would have the budget.

Natalie MacLean (00:25:42) – Where is your ideal setting to enjoy a glass of wine?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:25:46) – I would say a summer afternoon outdoors and a beautiful day. Not too hot, but 75 to 80 degrees dry. Getting ready to go into the pool maybe.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:01) – Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:02) – Absolutely. Lovely. And maybe share with us one more food and wine pairing tip that we can try can be something simple or whatever comes to mind.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:13) – I would say my two favorite things would be champagne and potato chips.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:20) – Okay.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:20) – Great combination.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:23) – Lay’s.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:23) – Classic potato chips.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:26) – I like.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:26) – That you’re specific.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:27) – Yeah.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:29) – That’s a high.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:30) – Low. You can kick.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:31) – Off your book with that one. That.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:33) – Exactly.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:33) – That’s that’s a good idea. Maybe we should work on that.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:37) – Yes.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:38) – Absolutely. So as we wrap up our conversation Barbara is there anything we haven’t covered that you’d like to mention?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:45) – I don’t think so. I just would love, you know, love for people to pick up wine time and cook from it and enjoy it. And it would be lovely.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:26:56) – So cool.

Natalie MacLean (00:26:57) – Well, we will definitely link to all of your books and your website and chronicle. How can people best get in touch with you online? What is your website or whatever else you want to mention?

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:05) – It’s WW w Barbara Scott Goodman dot net.

Natalie MacLean (00:27:10) – Dot net okay, great.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:12) – Yep, that’s where I am.

Natalie MacLean (00:27:14) – They can find your books and everything else there and probably link out to your social media channels and whatever. So we’ll put that in the show notes. Of course I’m going to say goodbye for now and cheers okay.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:25) – Cheers to.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:26) – You too. Okay.

Natalie MacLean (00:27:27) – This has been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:30) – Thank you.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:31) – Nice to see.

Barbara Scott-Goodman (00:27:32) – You. All right.

Natalie MacLean (00:27:33) – Cheers. Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed our chat with Barbara. Here are my takeaways. Number one, I love Barbara’s pairing of Romesco bread and a robust Rioja from Spain. It’s on my list to try this week. Number two. Do photos of dishes enhance or detract from restaurant menus? Well, Barbara believes that photography is an unnecessary expense for most restaurant menus these days. Of course, many people look at the website of a restaurant before they even make a reservation. These sites tend to have good photos. That can be a selling point. Also, and I agree with her, dishes change so frequently that you’d have to keep photographing and keep redesigning the menu. Number two, how does the inclusion of photography affect the cost of a cookbook? Well, as Barbara says, food photography is extremely expensive, especially when you’re getting involved with prop stylists and food stylists. And all the time that takes the cost really does floor people. Authors and readers.

Natalie MacLean (00:28:38) – Of course, we want big, colorful, beautiful pictures, but there isn’t room for a lot of mistakes. And Barbara mentioned that while working on a book, when the costing came back, they decided to do illustrations instead because it was just so far out of budget. And number four, how can you set yourself up for success as an aspiring food or drink writer? Again, I agree with her that it’s a lot of work, so make sure you’re serious about it. Develop a platform. Start working on recipes or in my case, tasting wines. Give your friends recipes to test. I guess you could give them your wines as well and take the feedback. Have a vision. What kind of book do you really want to create and what’s important to you? In the show notes, you’ll find a full transcript of my conversation with Barbara, links to her website, and books the video versions of these conversations on Facebook and YouTube live, and where you can order my book online now, no matter where you live.

Natalie MacLean (00:29:35) – You could also find a link to take my free online food and wine pairing class called the five Wine and Food Pairing Mistakes That Can Ruin Your Dinner and How to Fix Them Forever at Natalie MacLean dot com forward slash class. That’s all in the show notes at Natalie MacLean dot com forward slash 284. Email me if you have a sip dip question. Would like to win one of three copies of Barbara’s gorgeous book on food and wine pairing with recipes. Or if you’ve read my book or in the process of reading it. Or maybe your book club is doing it. So no matter what, email me and Natalie at Natalie MacLean dot com. If you missed episode 162, go back and take a listen. I chat about Sherry, Rioja, Cava and other Spanish wine gems with expert Lawrence Francis. I’ll share a short clip with you now to whet your appetite.

Lawrence Francis (00:30:26) – Sherry is one of the most complex wines out there, so turn is always going to have this amazing length and intensity. But sherry in the right hands, you can almost just turn it up.

Lawrence Francis (00:30:37) – There’s so many different colors and different flavors to paint from it. I think they’re on the right track, and talking about how well it goes with food. Food is a wonderful way to hook people and to get them to want to know more about the wine.

Natalie MacLean (00:30:52) – It’s a great way into wine itself, but also categories of wine that have maybe suffered from misconceptions like sherry has often been pegged as the Oxford Don University professor, wine behind the books, or Granny’s wine or whatever. But it is complex. It’s nutty, it’s wonderful. Has this range of styles from sweet to dry. If you liked this episode or learned even one thing from it, please email or tell one friend about the podcast this week, especially someone you know who’d be interested in learning more about food and wine pairing and the behind the scenes look at publishing a cookbook. It’s easy to find my podcast. Just tell them to search for Natalie MacLean wine on their favorite podcast app, or they can listen to the show on my website. Thank you for taking the time to join me here.

Natalie MacLean (00:31:47) – I hope something great is in your glass this week. Perhaps a dusty, earthy rioja with romesco sauce seeping into the crevices of warm toast. You don’t want to miss one juicy episode of this podcast, especially the secret full bodied bonus episodes that I don’t announce on social media. So subscribe for free now at Natalie MacLean. Com forward slash subscribe. Meet me here next week. Cheers.

 

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